oh nOeS!

[brok landers]

i won't comment the supersaw issue, as it has already been covered, but one thing you guys have to understand:
the cpu is high for a good reason. the _complete_ signalflow in ace is on full audiorate. that's why you can just plug _any_ module's out to _everywhere_ for modulation. it doesn't matter, as all modules operate within the full availlable spectrum. just to give you an idea:
you can use lfo2 to phasemodulate lfo1 (dx like fm) from 0 to nyquist (half of the actual samplingrate!), feed that result into the filter(s) overdrive them, and use the filteroutput to modulate one or both vco's, while vco1 can, at the same time, sync vco2, crossmodulate vco2 and ringmodulate both vco's at the same time . that's just a very basic patching, and that's just the tip of the iceberg, but try that on _any_ other modular vsti. you won't get far, i tell ya.
essentially what i'm trying to say is:
realize, that you can for the first time do _everything_ (and more) as you can do on i.e. a roland modular system100, and thatone obviously can't save and is monophonic only, suffers from summing noise, tonal instabilities, etc, etc ... and it costs, what, around 4000€, if you find one, used, that is?

ace is _not_ your usual goto-synth for normal tasks, you'd waste its capabilities by far when doing so. but when it comes to the unique soundpossibilities that you can create on an analog modular synth, you'll not find any vsti (hard-moduled) that gives you _that_ much flexibility.
suddenly you can hear what just real analog crossmodulation sounds like. suddenly you can hear what it sounds like when modulating a cutoff with 20 000hz.

these possibilities are only possible if the harmonic frequencies that are produced by such heavy/high modulation frequencies are _not_ shooting over nyquist. this requires the synth to work _entirely_ on very high samplingrate, and it needs to be drastically oversampled within the whole signal path. there's technically just no way around that. it's simple physics that you cannot overcome in another way. that simply costs cpu.

so, to sum it up:
if you have never worked with a _fully_ analog synthesizer that gives you a lot of audiorate modulation possibilities, you probably don't understand what i state here anyway, and then you also probably do not need it anyway. but if you have had the experience to work with such an analog hardware synth, you know where to split the beans ... suddenly the sound you know from such a synth is possible with a vsti ... called ace.

just wanted to point this out for cpu usage complainers, of which i am one of the first, in normal cases. some synths just suck too much cpu for _no_ real reason, i.e. they suffer from clever or lazy programming, but in case of ace there's something equally wheighted you get in return for the high cpu usage:
you can now do things that you can normally _exclusively_ do with analog hardware.

[Urs]

Thanks Brok, well said!

What really leaves me puzzled is that the OP does have an analogue modular system at home, knows his stuff very well and still can't see the woods for the trees. It must be just a Saturday night life issue or something.

[Timfonie]

That's a very clarifying post, Brok! Thanks.

It makes me wonder though, when one day Urs's larger modular system is finished, it will probably eat even much more CPU (for good reasons obvisously). I wonder if modern computers will be able to handle it?
(Of course Urs won't put something on the market which won't properly run)

[whyterabbyt]

and still can't see the woods for the trees

only ever sees those trees, in fact.

"Did I spend $3000 on a modular synth just to later find out it's made with a bunch of digital junk? Isn't integrated circuits basically a digital component? How analog is my ANALOG modular synth, really? I feel betrayed right now"

[brok landers]

urs,
to be fair, architeutis, the op, did _not_ complain on the cpu usage, but, yeah, i know architeutis from his posts here on kvr, and i normally do agree with him on a lot of issues, but here ...
i'm a sucker for supersaws, too, even if not for the usual happy-hardcore-tarnce stuff, but there's millions of synths that provide you with supersaw's of all kinds. and while i do think that every normal substractive osc based synth should include a supersaw nowadays, just for it's ease of use and completion, i don't think it's necessary for a synth like ace, which is aiming for a very specific kind of sound area.


wytherabbyt,
yeah, i remember that thread ...

[Xenos]

i won't comment the supersaw issue, as it has already been covered, but one thing you guys have to understand:
the cpu is high for a good reason. the _complete_ signalflow in ace is on full audiorate. that's why you can just plug _any_ module's out to _everywhere_ for modulation. it doesn't matter, as all modules operate within the full availlable spectrum. just to give you an idea:
you can use lfo2 to phasemodulate lfo1 (dx like fm) from 0 to nyquist (half of the actual samplingrate!), feed that result into the filter(s) overdrive them, and use the filteroutput to modulate one or both vco's, while vco1 can, at the same time, sync vco2, crossmodulate vco2 and ringmodulate both vco's at the same time . that's just a very basic patching, and that's just the tip of the iceberg, but try that on _any_ other modular vsti. you won't get far, i tell ya.
essentially what i'm trying to say is:
realize, that you can for the first time do _everything_ (and more) as you can do on i.e. a roland modular system100, and thatone obviously can't save and is monophonic only, suffers from summing noise, tonal instabilities, etc, etc ... and it costs, what, around 4000€, if you find one, used, that is?

ace is _not_ your usual goto-synth for normal tasks, you'd waste its capabilities by far when doing so. but when it comes to the unique soundpossibilities that you can create on an analog modular synth, you'll not find any vsti (hard-moduled) that gives you _that_ much flexibility.
suddenly you can hear what just real analog crossmodulation sounds like. suddenly you can hear what it sounds like when modulating a cutoff with 20 000hz.

these possibilities are only possible if the harmonic frequencies that are produced by such heavy/high modulation frequencies are _not_ shooting over nyquist. this requires the synth to work _entirely_ on very high samplingrate, and it needs to be drastically oversampled within the whole signal path. there's technically just no way around that. it's simple physics that you cannot overcome in another way. that simply costs cpu.

so, to sum it up:
if you have never worked with a _fully_ analog synthesizer that gives you a lot of audiorate modulation possibilities, you probably don't understand what i state here anyway, and then you also probably do not need it anyway. but if you have had the experience to work with such an analog hardware synth, you know where to split the beans ... suddenly the sound you know from such a synth is possible with a vsti ... called ace.

just wanted to point this out for cpu usage complainers, of which i am one of the first, in normal cases. some synths just suck too much cpu for _no_ real reason, i.e. they suffer from clever or lazy programming, but in case of ace there's something equally wheighted you get in return for the high cpu usage:
you can now do things that you can normally _exclusively_ do with analog hardware.

Looks like Urs will have yet another customer soon...your description just sold me on Ace .

[breakmixer]

Looks like Urs will have yet another customer soon...your description just sold me on Ace .

Can you buy it asap? Then give kvr a full review, Urs was twisting my arm about this synth, sort of! I said I didn't want another synth but after reading that description it makes me inquisitive to know more! Is this the ultimate VA so far in the history of VSTkind?

[Axis1~SL61]

Great T-shirt! -- where can I buy one of those to wear on my next gig?

[pedrorf]

For a moment you guys scared me... CPU is not that bad! I'm trying ACE on a single core 1.73GHz pentium-m and I'm having no problems at all skimming through the presets. On some patches I can't get enough voices for chords, sure, but for monophonic lines and sound fx it's fine. I can't imagine not getting acceptable polyphony from it on a modern machine.

[Urs]

Is this the ultimate VA so far in the history of VSTkind?

Nah, that would be exaggerated by far.

However, within the past 2 years I started to distinguish between 3 kinds of digital synthesizers:

- Digital Synth, using purely digital synthesis methods (FM, PD, Graintable)

- Virtual Analog Synth, mimiking analogue behaviour with digital means, e.g. using a wavetabled supersaw to economically realise pseudo-unison sounds

- Analogue Modeling Synth aka Audiorate Synth, recreating the actual state of components and/or component blocks without compromise

Of course there's always overlap. We've recently seen that analogue modeled filters can be achieved in relatively efficient ways (ASynth, Elek7ro).

ACE uses each of these concepts to its benefit. LFO1 is puerely digital (sine by waveshaping a naive sawtooth), LFO2 is virtual analogue (mipmapped wavetable) while the oscillators are very close to a really, really nice analogue model (I've bought a couple of books and components recently to learn this).

So, hmmm... ACE picks its bits from where they're best

[rlahalla]

Looks like Urs will have yet another customer soon...your description just sold me on Ace .

you've got to get it Bryan, it's seriously dope. Diggety dope, actually.

[brok landers]

Looks like Urs will have yet another customer soon...your description just sold me on Ace .

xenos, don't take my word on it, try for yourself ...

[rob_lee]

It's cheap enough so go for it.

[Dj Troy]

which synths do you like mr. Dj Troy?

Keep your wits abou you Dj Troy, as this is a "loaded" question........

i like zebra massive fm8 to name a few just don't like this vsti

[Dj Troy]

hate the synth don't think it sounds great plus its a cpu hog

wow that is great so funny thanks for taking the time to upload it.where can i buy that t shirt?