Composing via chord progression
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- KVRist
- 394 posts since 10 Aug, 2006
You have me a little concerned now sounds like I should get a new teacher! I mean I can't sight read ver fast right now but I couldn't sight read at all 2 years ago my teacher just wants to teach peoe who enjoy music maybe I would need a new teacher once I'm at a better level of playing, I'm not doing any ear training or grades maybe I could do some of this myself ?
L P B
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- KVRAF
- 7833 posts since 20 Jan, 2008
The teacher may not know your intentions.
I'm a guitarist
Some students Some just want to learn songs, some want to learn reading so they can study songs on their own, Some want to learn theory. A teacher does not know the direction you want to take unless you tell them. They may or may not be able to help you but putting it out in the open is the only way to know where to go from here.
I had a great teacher but I cam to take lessons after I had already learned to sight read and knew technique. If I really wanted to learn a song he had a great ear and could transcribe anything. He taught me applied theory through improvisation and writing.
We would take a common jazz or rock tune analyze it's components and completely rewrite it. Like how would Santana treat something like song x, now how would Satriani do a song like song x, How/where could you get away with a whole tone scale or a half-whole.
Many years later I returned to study/jam with him again. This time with a laptop that had band in a box. It took him a little time to get used to the biab interface. Within a month he was using biab as a study tool with his advanced students.
If there is any advise i can offer you. Learning how to write means dedicating yourself to writing. Write as many songs as you can, good bad or indifferent. Appy what you learn along the way from what others have written but don't focus so much on the material that you end up just covering them.
Jam often with others. Pick up thier vibe, learn how to sit in the mix. Don't
stomp all over them and don't hide in a corner. Find your spot and take your shot.
I'm a guitarist
Some students Some just want to learn songs, some want to learn reading so they can study songs on their own, Some want to learn theory. A teacher does not know the direction you want to take unless you tell them. They may or may not be able to help you but putting it out in the open is the only way to know where to go from here.
I had a great teacher but I cam to take lessons after I had already learned to sight read and knew technique. If I really wanted to learn a song he had a great ear and could transcribe anything. He taught me applied theory through improvisation and writing.
We would take a common jazz or rock tune analyze it's components and completely rewrite it. Like how would Santana treat something like song x, now how would Satriani do a song like song x, How/where could you get away with a whole tone scale or a half-whole.
Many years later I returned to study/jam with him again. This time with a laptop that had band in a box. It took him a little time to get used to the biab interface. Within a month he was using biab as a study tool with his advanced students.
If there is any advise i can offer you. Learning how to write means dedicating yourself to writing. Write as many songs as you can, good bad or indifferent. Appy what you learn along the way from what others have written but don't focus so much on the material that you end up just covering them.
Jam often with others. Pick up thier vibe, learn how to sit in the mix. Don't
stomp all over them and don't hide in a corner. Find your spot and take your shot.
Dell Vostro i9 64GB Ram Windows 11 Pro, Cubase, Bitwig, Mixcraft Guitar Pod Go, Linntrument Nektar P1, Novation Launchpad
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- KVRist
- 102 posts since 17 Feb, 2005
Use your Imagination to write.
I find classical trained people a little stiff in the Imaginary world.
They know there stuff BUT!!!!
Be free and let the child come out in you !!!!!!!!!!!
Experiment, but make sense.
You cannot beat a good melody.
Let it come from within!!!!
"MAY THE FORCE BE WITH YOU"
I find classical trained people a little stiff in the Imaginary world.
They know there stuff BUT!!!!
Be free and let the child come out in you !!!!!!!!!!!
Experiment, but make sense.
You cannot beat a good melody.
Let it come from within!!!!
"MAY THE FORCE BE WITH YOU"
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- KVRian
- 903 posts since 14 May, 2003
It is my fervent hope that this attitude doesn't spread to the medical arts!bugbug wrote: I find classical trained people a little stiff in the Imaginary world.
They know there stuff BUT!!!!
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- KVRAF
- 7833 posts since 20 Jan, 2008
I'm sure there is a proctological solution. i just can't put my finger on it.
Dell Vostro i9 64GB Ram Windows 11 Pro, Cubase, Bitwig, Mixcraft Guitar Pod Go, Linntrument Nektar P1, Novation Launchpad
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- KVRist
- 394 posts since 10 Aug, 2006
well im about 2 years in with my teacher and learning sight reading and playing from books etc, i wouldnt want to waste any time if i could be progressing in the area im most interested in with another teacher, personally i feel that im getting better at playing and reading music but im still not great at all,
so maybe im fine doing what im doing for a few more years before i have to think about a new teacher?
so maybe im fine doing what im doing for a few more years before i have to think about a new teacher?
L P B
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- KVRAF
- 7833 posts since 20 Jan, 2008
Be less concerned about being great. It is something no teacher can do for a student. A teacher provides the information it is up to the student to use it.
You may not have it in you to be great or even good.
So you have two years of playing in you.
What have you done/are you doing to expand this?
Have you joined a band?
Do you regularly perform?
Do you record everyday?
Do you listen to it on playback?
You may not have it in you to be great or even good.
So you have two years of playing in you.
What have you done/are you doing to expand this?
Have you joined a band?
Do you regularly perform?
Do you record everyday?
Do you listen to it on playback?
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- KVRist
- 394 posts since 10 Aug, 2006
im not concerned about being great, just not wasting years not heading towards my goal, to compose my own chord progressions and build my own music based on my own progressions.
there is no way i could join a band im not good enough, i also have no desire to be part of a band, bu aside from practise im reading up on theory and trying out my own ideas, reading forums etc
there is no way i could join a band im not good enough, i also have no desire to be part of a band, bu aside from practise im reading up on theory and trying out my own ideas, reading forums etc
L P B
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- KVRer
- 10 posts since 27 Nov, 2009
Hmmm... back in February, you said this about your teacher:leighbeynon wrote:im not concerned about being great, just not wasting years not heading towards my goal, to compose my own chord progressions and build my own music based on my own progressions.
I've written a lot here, but I might not have done well with my examples; I apologize in advance if I haven't made my meaning clear. The subject really requires a much fuller answer, but it's after 1:00 am and I've got to get to bed.leighbeynon wrote:...he hates the circle of 5ths for example and doesnt see the need for it,
I'm not trying to piss anyone off here, but if the quote above is a true statement by your teacher, this would scare the hell out of me. After 2 years of study, you must have learned and be practicing your triad cadences (I,IV,I,V7,I) and ii/V7/I progressions in all your major and minor keys at least, and I would hope you would be working on 7th chord progressions (ii/V/I, IV/V/I) in all keys. If not, Google up the cycle and put a few hours practice time into running through it (eg. for CM - dmin, G7, CMaj or dmin7, V7, CMaj7, etc. then FMaj/G7/CMaj or FMaj7/G7/CMaj7) for the major and minor keys... see if this doesn't help your understanding of progressions, or getting the sound of traditional western European harmonic progressions in your ears, so when you hear it in a melody you know the basic underlying harmony to start out with. If, after two years of study, this is all new stuff to you, then I would suggest you find a new teacher. As someone mentioned earlier in this thread, harmonizing a melody is not that difficult, and there are many options open to you, but you need a good foundation to start out with. Being familiar with ii/V/I and IV/V/I progressions in the major and minor keys is pretty basic to your endeavor. You might be well served by picking up Mark Levine's "Jazz Piano Book", and using it as a reference for your basic 7ths as well as extensions and substitutions and where you can use them. We all learn differently and at different speeds, but a good understanding of basic harmony and voice leading seems pretty fundamental to me for anyone wanting to arrange or compose music. You should be getting this in your weekly lessons.
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- KVRAF
- 2217 posts since 15 Jul, 2003
that statement bothered me as well...he hates the circle of 5ths for example and doesnt see the need for it,
it only makes sense if the teacher teaches to pieces of music without analysis or any sort of direction fro composition or reharmonization
and I guess there are a lot of teachers out there like that
one could learn quite a repertoire w/o ever having come upon the usefulness of the circle of fifths
it comes down to what you want from a teacher
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- KVRAF
- 7833 posts since 20 Jan, 2008
One could also write a vast repertoire without having to ponder the circle of 5ths. If one embraces the circle of 5ths as route then it becomes nothing more then a mechanical pursuit.
Granted when I studied scales back in the day I did so as a daily regiment to develop mechanical abilities. Each day I'd play the next key in the chain. So in two weeks time I would have cycled thru all keys. I'm not most guitarists.
Most guitarists learn everything in A or E as that is where most guitar examples are structured. then apply them to Rock Keys
E-A-G-D
Honestly If you want to learn to write you should be writing already. Don't wait for the theory to arrive. Try to write something everyday based on what you already know. You know chords, you know progessions you know scales and patterns and you know songs. Lay a chord progession down and try to sing or play a melody to it. Record it. Don't think it's not good enough or you don't know enough. Try to vary aspects of the rythmic function be it the harmony or the melody. Pat yourself on the back for making the effort. Don't spend more then an hour on it. Every song writer throws away hundreds of idea's only to pick them up again later and reuse them. Every song writer whether inadvertently or advertantly uses content that may have already been developed by someone else.
If you want to write, the worst decision is to wait till you feel you have mastered emough knowledge and ability to write. A teacher can provide you with skillsets learning progessions licks rythmic techniques. But ultimately if you want to be a song writer you are the one who will have to apply them and vary them to suit your needs.
Granted when I studied scales back in the day I did so as a daily regiment to develop mechanical abilities. Each day I'd play the next key in the chain. So in two weeks time I would have cycled thru all keys. I'm not most guitarists.
Most guitarists learn everything in A or E as that is where most guitar examples are structured. then apply them to Rock Keys
E-A-G-D
Honestly If you want to learn to write you should be writing already. Don't wait for the theory to arrive. Try to write something everyday based on what you already know. You know chords, you know progessions you know scales and patterns and you know songs. Lay a chord progession down and try to sing or play a melody to it. Record it. Don't think it's not good enough or you don't know enough. Try to vary aspects of the rythmic function be it the harmony or the melody. Pat yourself on the back for making the effort. Don't spend more then an hour on it. Every song writer throws away hundreds of idea's only to pick them up again later and reuse them. Every song writer whether inadvertently or advertantly uses content that may have already been developed by someone else.
If you want to write, the worst decision is to wait till you feel you have mastered emough knowledge and ability to write. A teacher can provide you with skillsets learning progessions licks rythmic techniques. But ultimately if you want to be a song writer you are the one who will have to apply them and vary them to suit your needs.
Dell Vostro i9 64GB Ram Windows 11 Pro, Cubase, Bitwig, Mixcraft Guitar Pod Go, Linntrument Nektar P1, Novation Launchpad
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- KVRist
- 394 posts since 10 Aug, 2006
yeah this is point i wonder if im not even close enough to having the skills to start creating my own ideas, i mean im practising scales now myself,
and im going to start some ear training excercises online each day,
but i think i get stopped when i try to play a progression very slowly
and wonder if its technically right and following theory, rather than thinking if it sounds ok then its ok,
i keep thinking if i play random chords and try to get a progression maybe im moving in and out of different keys and is this right to do,
if you get what im trying to say,
my teacher right now is just getting me to play loads of different songs and trying to improve my sight reading as well as practise scales,
he can improvise and he did learn dominant, sub dom etc etc but he will just play he doesnt like theory that gives you rules to follow i think,
and im going to start some ear training excercises online each day,
but i think i get stopped when i try to play a progression very slowly
and wonder if its technically right and following theory, rather than thinking if it sounds ok then its ok,
i keep thinking if i play random chords and try to get a progression maybe im moving in and out of different keys and is this right to do,
if you get what im trying to say,
my teacher right now is just getting me to play loads of different songs and trying to improve my sight reading as well as practise scales,
he can improvise and he did learn dominant, sub dom etc etc but he will just play he doesnt like theory that gives you rules to follow i think,
L P B