Question to IKMM : AT3 vs AxeFX

[Silenceborn]

<---- An old user and owner of almost all the amp sims on the market, so also an old and proud user of AT2 and now 3, and though I believe almost all the amp sims are useful if you KNOW how to use them and also see them as they are, not as real amp replacement solutions. But if I want to be specific, in the last 2 or 3 months I have discovered some free and also not very famous and globally known commercial amp sims out there which are so very good that I believe some of them passed the mainstream BIG NAMES/BRANDS technology by a long shot, both in terms of sound quality and design, IMHO among them are
'Vandal' and 'Studio Devil AMP' which I have got the latter recently, and I have to confess that as a pro guitarist who owns, miced and tweaked/modded as hell more than 10 state of the art real amps, I believe though NO AMP sim can ever compete with the real counterparts, but I have to tell you that when I'm playing my Fender strat delux or my Gibson traditional through Vandal and Studio Devil AMP, if not 100% but I'm almost 90% satisfied with the tones, moreover, never forget the free stuff out there, take a look at www.guitarampmodeling.com and you will be amazed

finally about that Axe-Fx, well I had not another chance to spend more time with this in my opinion obviously "overpriced unit", so I might be wrong here but as I mentioned before in another thread, about 2 or 3 weeks ago I had the opportunity to play with this thingy(Axe Fx Ultra) almost a whole afternoon, and though I could get some good tones out of it, I still had the same problem I already have with almost all the amp sims out there, Glassy feeling of the strings, unfocused distortion, lousy and artificial plastic mids and highs, squashed and grainy, especially when one is bending the strings, and etc.. Yes I have all these issues with almost all the amp sims out there, and not a single one of them that I have tried could avoid them, they simply CAN NOT, at least not for now, but while I believe none of them could deliver the tones that a real amp could deliver, I also believe there are some of them that can deliver a sound quality which is SATISFIABLE and CONVINCING to ease your job instead of micing your real amps and other typical recording issues like treating the room acoustics and so many other problems that real amps recording could bring out, so to my ears, Vandal and Studio Devil AMP (and also some of those free sutff !) are among them, and after trying them, I simply can not go back and use other BIG NAME amp sims that I used to use anymore.

And yes now (got my new Motu ultra last week) I have tried them all with 4 different audio interfaces, so yes preamps are important, included TC electronics Konnekt Live, Focusrite stuff, motu and others.

IMHO, I will never spend that much money to get one of these Axe-Fx things for the tones I was able to achieve with it, honestly I was not surprised and was not able to dial in even a single Phenomenal sound that I can get from real amps yet, though they are advertising LOUD and there are too many people who are worshiping AXE-FX, good for them, but I simply did not see anything that especial in that box to even make me want to demo it again.

try the NON-MAINSTREAM commercial and even free stuff and I'm sure you will be amazed, many of them are free or you can try the demos if some of them are not free, or if you are a purist, just like me when I want to record some very serious stuff (not just Ads or demos, or not when your 5 yrs old daughter is sleeping sound and safe and you do not want to wake her up to come and pull your hair or probably kick your amp cabs to death to punish you! ), put them all away and record with just "ONE" GOOD REAL AMP, get a good marshal, or one of those lovely Orange Tiny Terrors and you will be in instant heaven with more than 72 virgins as a same time lol .

EDIT : just wanted to add these links, take a look :






Cheers!

[bishop666]

Just show what you can and cannot. Try to match the tones frome the axe posted on page 1. Less talking, more guitar.

just post patch and soundfile.

[Agreed]

Just show what you can and cannot. Try to match the tones frome the axe posted on page 1. Less talking, more guitar.

just post patch and soundfile.

1. No need to be abrasive and obnoxious about it. Calm down, mate.

2. So you're just looking for an exact match? Not a better high gain sound, just a copy of what the AxeFX does?

[bishop666]

why don't you offer both the more the better

[zerocrossing]

I know for one thing input volume for instrument preamps on sub>$300 interfaces have all sounded different to me, and all put out different amounts of gain.

The tascam us-144 I have has the weakest output from the instrument preamp. The focusrite saffire 6 has a screaming instrument output, I actually have to trim some before guitar rig see's it. The presonus firebox I have is right in the middle.

On the same preset, say for example the Plexi model, at all the same settings, running the tascam it sounds like a clean guitar amp because the input volume is so low. Running the focusrite, the input volume is so high the amp is distorting right away.

So, zerocrossing has a point about presets not being 100% interchangeable between different people.

However, they obviously do help get you in the ballpark. With adjustments to the gain change, not taking into account different pickups you should be able to get relatively close.

That doesn't even take into account the difference in pure sound quality of different dacs. My 828 sounds way better than my FireWire solo and putting something in front of it to match the impedance helps even more. I often wonder if using the StompI/O would do even better, but I need something with more ins and outs and I think FireWire does a bit better performance wise, plus the "fire" part imparts a warmth to the sound that USB does not. So it could very well be that any percieved difference in quality of sound could come from the fact that the axefx has much better dacs than your garden variety $150 interface that most people buy. Hell, my motu isn't even the pinnacle of quality, I'm sure.

Also, another person makes a great point. Even if the axefx is your favorite amp sim for high gain sounds, at its price point why not get the real deal and put it in an isolation box? You might even save some money that way especially if you already own a good audio interface. If recording is your goal, it would seem a shame to take the analog outs of a digital device and then reconvert it.

Oh well, some people think that vandel and revalver sound best for high gain and I think they both sound like crap on a cracker. (not even a good cracker. I'm talking store brand saltine) so, to each their own. I don't even listen to metal. My favorite high gain sounds are more likely to come out of Robert Fripp than Slayer.

[metalifuxx]

Someone should post a blind test to see if Bishop666 can even tell the difference himself.

[Franzel]

Just show what you can and cannot. Try to match the tones frome the axe posted on page 1. Less talking, more guitar.

just post patch and soundfile.

+1, though I know it won't happen....

[Agreed]

why don't you offer both the more the better

Just show what you can and cannot. Try to match the tones frome the axe posted on page 1. Less talking, more guitar.

just post patch and soundfile.

+1, though I know it won't happen....

Already working on some patches but here's a question who judges which is better? Because I think there might be some bias

[Agreed]

Seriously, snark aside, how are we going to determine whether the clips I post or zerocrossing posts are of the same quality or better than the AxeFX clips? I already stated that I don't really feel those linked clips are the best representation of what the AxeFX can do, let alone what modeling can do; and you guys pretty clearly don't think any other modeler is as good as the AxeFX. So who judges?

[bishop666]

You'll be given a very fair reply. But please try to nail the axe's tone first and then move on to a "better" tone.


This is not about bashing, it is about challenging the axe fx. And it is open for anyone.

[Agreed]

You'll be given a very fair reply. But please try to nail the axe's tone first and then move on to a "better" tone.


This is not about bashing, it is about challenging axe fx. And it is open for anyone.

So you do want me to first try to copy that tone exactly, and then do other things...

Alright, I guess I'll get started on that, though there's going to be some inherent discrepancy in the sound since he's using what I assume is a proprietary AxeFX IR and I'll be using the cabinet modeling in AT3. So we're playing into two different cabs from the start, that's going to make an exact match impossible. Then do you want "as close as possible given that we're using different cabs?" Because at that point it's back to a judgment call. You can promise me fairness, but mr. bishop666, methinks you have a particular fondness for the AxeFX which might constitute a conflict of interest

[bishop666]

I'll be fair. I know you have to find the right mic/cab combination. Take your time. I'll accept if your are really close. A phase cancellation test is not the goal.

I wanna know where we are these days in software only modelling: way off the axe fx or not.

And if your are not close enough, you get another chance, if you want to.

[futurefields]

Clearly bishop666 will be biased toward the axe fx. But, there are other people listening who do not share these bias.

[Hink]

Someone should post a blind test to see if Bishop666 can even tell the difference himself.

would never work, the problem with such examples are that they can be rigged. The very placement of one against the other can yield different results, through in a dupe and you can control the results. I can make an amp sim sound great, Ican make an amps sim sound bad, same with my amps and I'm sure the same axe. For instance if I were to get a good sound on at3 and then compared it to axe depending on how I wanted it to work I could affect his choice simply by cutting back on the highs just a little on one and placing that sample before the one I wanted him to choose.

I have a problem with sample demos as a result because of this, it's far to easy to manipulate. Without a control (which in this case is very hard to create) it's tough and the clever man can even manipulate the control.

I'm afraid this is a never ending debate

[futurefields]

whats the return policy on axe fx?