composition question

[jancivil]

Talent can be learned, too.

Oh, come on. You don't really believe this, do you?

Talent can't be learned. It's just that talented people a better at learning. Talent is not something, which makes you excel at certain task. Talent is something which helps you to excel at almost any task you dare to learn.

I don't know what someone else can learn or not. I started off with no kind of ear. I sang off-key. I did not show promise in this regard. I now have a good mastery, can transcribe anything, I know what I hear. Within my restricted ability to vocalize I can even sing reliably. I was motivated to correct my problem. That is a particular talent. Overall, I must have been born with some as there are things that came easy to me.

I grant you, intelligent people are better at learning, and intelligence is a talent... so we can both have our opinions and not be very wrong I think. I don't agree with an overarching definition of the word 'talent' that gets rid of the particular 'a talent'. That gets into semantics.

The statement was rhetorical. *It isn't helpful to blame our deficiency on a lack of talent, do the work to fix it instead.*

[jancivil]

I was watching ST Voyager yesterday. The Doctor found out what a great voice has Seven of Nine. She explained the technical reasons responsible for her accuracy and quality of tone production. It was useful for her role in the collective so it was programmed like that.

I don't think it's a bad argument. While I think that there are people with a better talent for singing than me, demonstrably enough, I don't think that a singer can't be 'built'.

OTOH, are there people that just can't be musical? maybe so. It's a dark thought.

[wrench45us]

from the site reference on this forum somewhere

http://www.ibreathemusic.com/article/118

Personally, even as a rather driven personality, I would be happy at 80% on many musical endeavors. As an optimistic type, I tend to believe that hard work and disciplined approach will pay off eventually -- even though it hasn't always proved to be the case.

I'm thinking instilling this kind of take no prosoners' attitude in students is self-serving for the teacher as it makes their task so much easier if students actually practice.
Plus on other sites I see what this person charges for lessons per hour -- even web lessons and it's rather outrageous, so I suspect there's some marketing going on in this sort of presentation.
On th efar other hand, my opinion of Ed Friedlander, writer of many highly regarded bass instruction books, music magazine writer, etc etc went way up when I saw that he offers lessons in Austin, Texas to people of any ability any style at $30/ 1/2 hour. I don't know if these are Texas wages, but making his instruction available at that level is very generous.

so many ways to get there, but they all involve a certain amount of diligence

[tapper mike]

After reading the article. It's more about persona then talent. I've beaten myself to death with some passages I've never gotten right both easy and difficult and there are other times when mastery was as easy as falling off a log. In both both outcomes I'd be extremely dedicated. I don't think we can be all things in all situations for all times. I don't think people are built like that.

I do think that people hit upon a success in a particular genre and easily expand on their successes. I've tried classical guitar on and off for the last 30 years. No matter what I do I can't shake my current left hand position for the classical "stance" you have to position the hand in to gain the intended result. It's not that I'm stupid and it's not that I'm unwilling to try. It's simply a huge roadblock that the only solution I can come to is walk away and work with what I know works for me. I could practice my arse off for a year and still not get the intended result.

By the same token Django Rienhard didn't start off missing a few fingers. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Django_Reinhardt Nor did he give up on the instrument after the fire.

So yeah make the most of what fuels your success don't get bogged down in a direction that isn't moving you forward and don't sell yourself short.

[dandmkirkwood]

Well put. For the first ten years of playing the guitar because I had no one to teach me better in the early stages I would always play lead guitar with fingers 1,2&4. This worked fine for me as my lead wasn't that advanced anyway. But soon enough I wanted to move to the next level and found I couldn't because what I needed was to use my ring finger as efficiently as the rest. No matter what I tried fingers 1,3&4 just wouldn't work together. I worked hard going up and down modes as fast as I could but apparently I had crippled myself with seriously bad habits. After another 10 years I'm proud to say I use my ring finger all the time but unfortunately it will never be as coordinated as the others, sigh. this experience has tought me that when I'm training a student from the word go I will do everything in my power to make sure they don't develop habits that will hinder them in future years. I Always teach the correct method even though I feel a bit of a hypocrite because that's not how I learnt.

[vurt]

tips, guides on how to compose music will be greatly apreciated. I already understand the thory but I havent done any thing worth hearing

thats cos they dont teach imagination.
there are many folk around that know theory inside out, can play their instruments like a maestro...
but cant compose anything outside of that.

try this, forget what you have learned for now and just play for fun, lose the need to achieve something and just let yourself get lost in what you are doing.
in time you will find yourself within all that theory, your voice so to speak lol.

[tapper mike]

tips, guides on how to compose music will be greatly apreciated. I already understand the thory but I havent done any thing worth hearing

If you are hoping to find the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, sorry it doesn't quite work like that. People love to talk about magic progressions that will save the world and make you rich but the fact is just because part of something that worked for someone else doesn't mean you can take the same fragment and have it work for you.

What does make a huge difference is motivated practice and believing in yourself. It's easy to get disillusioned standing in the shadows of greatness.


I used to have this drummer who could have been much better but he went thru cycles of laziness which thru his timing off or trying to be a showman and adding stuff that simply wasn't appropriate for the material we were doing. It was a constant struggle because I as bandleader had to belittle him to get him in gear. He played best when pissed. Eventually I had to let him go and it damaged my rep as a band leader not because of letting him go but because he told everyone I was an arsehole. And truth be told I used it because it was the only way to get him motivated. The take away is if you 1. Aren't motivated and 2 don't believe in what you are doing no one else will be either.

[jancivil]

After reading the article. It's more about persona then talent. I've beaten myself to death with some passages I've never gotten right both easy and difficult and there are other times when mastery was as easy as falling off a log. ... I don't think we can be all things in all situations for all times. I don't think people are built like that.

There are some that are pretty close though. I am not one of them, and I learned to cut my losses or to try and turn peculiarities and problems into strengths.

don't get bogged down in a direction that isn't moving you forward and don't sell yourself short.

Agreed. & Don't decide that you lack talent too readily.

[Loki Fuego]

Don't decide that you lack talent too readily.

Don't worry about the talent at all. Just do what you like. If you start thinking whether you are talented or not, you are going in wrong direction.

[wrench45us]

the deal with 100% wholehearted engagement would seem to be it doesn't take nearly as long to figure out where strengths and weaknesses lie and which passage will never work out and which just fall into place.

It seems I played drums from an early age and a lot oy years so my left hand was habituated to do accents and my right hand was trained on hihat or ride to keep a steady 8 or 16. I've come at piano a few times and as much as love it for the sound I'm never going to get my left hand to play a steady bottom. It just doesn't work that way

That doesn't mean that would be the case for everyone with that set of conditions, but it does seem to mean that for me. There's a lot of humanity in understanding and accepting our limits as well as pushing to find that they may not be quite as defined as we may think. Music is one of those endeavors where limits can actually open things up. This is all part of bringing who you are to music. The vast amount of music each of us has heard and appreciated and what we can do to make music we enjoy

[tapper mike]

Something like that just takes slow (very slow) dedication. I find a similar experience going from guitar to tapped ztar. My left hand never developed any rhythm because the right did all that. I could also blame armature because the left hand guitar position has a less then ideal position for proper mechanical motion. It's just something I accept and work to overcome rather then walking away.

If as you say it's hard to bring out accentuations with your left hand might You might want to check out ReaLGuitar

[Nystul]

It seems I played drums from an early age and a lot oy years so my left hand was habituated to do accents and my right hand was trained on hihat or ride to keep a steady 8 or 16. I've come at piano a few times and as much as love it for the sound I'm never going to get my left hand to play a steady bottom. It just doesn't work that way

That is interesting. I think that you have learned a poor approach to playing drum set. Maybe we all do. Being able to switch lead from right to left hand any time you want would make a lot of patterns a lot easier to play. I can't think of another instrument where the most common way of learning results in crossed arms 95% of the time, especially when free arm movement is critical to the instrument. Drums and piano are similar in that each hand is capable of doing everything and really needs to be able to do everything. If you count a steady beat without moving your right hand, you can play one with your left.

[wrench45us]

nobody I know ever received any instruction on playing a drum set. We all learned by watching everybody else. I would wonder if most current instruction would even introduce the idea of switching hand patterns.
Most of the percussionists I know who went onto conservatory level training didn't get anything on playing drum set, but did get some very strenuous work on snare that introduced hand independence and different time signatures per limb and generally moved onto mallet instruments.

[Nystul]

nobody I know ever received any instruction on playing a drum set. We all learned by watching everybody else. I would wonder if most current instruction would even introduce the idea of switching hand patterns.
Most of the percussionists I know who went onto conservatory level training didn't get anything on playing drum set, but did get some very strenuous work on snare that introduced hand independence and different time signatures per limb and generally moved onto mallet instruments.

Yeah, I learned percussion in grade school but applied to drum set on my own. I have no idea what they teach kids for lessons on set. If I were trying to teach someone, I'd want to build some foundation on snare drum before getting too far into drum set patterns. But I'm no pro. It seems to me that most everyone sticks with the same hand for typical hat or ride stuff. But then for a drum solo or fills the good drummers really can do whatever they need with either hand and keep it together. And the jazz guys will play hat with their foot if they want to do crazy solo.

[rbarata]

It seems I played drums from an early age and a lot oy years so my left hand was habituated to do accents and my right hand was trained on hihat or ride to keep a steady 8 or 16. I've come at piano a few times and as much as love it for the sound I'm never going to get my left hand to play a steady bottom. It just doesn't work that way

I don't agree with that!

My main instrument is drums and I'm an unusual player because I'm a right-handed player in my arms and a lefty in my legs. So, sometimes to play a simple beat I need to use my arms as a lefty and my legs as a right-handed player...and vice-versa. It's just a matter of necessity and trainning. The inability to do that is just a sign that the drummer never took his training too far.