KVR Audio

Teksonik · Post by **Teksonik** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 12:29 pm

lingyai wrote:MODERATOR -- with all due respect, I would ask you, in light of these allegations, to at least investigate a bit and then assess whether the developer should be permitted to have a current thread in the Market Place sub-forum. I can imagine that people making the allegations here would be willing to provide copies of emails, payment transaction records etc for your review. As it stands, if the developer is in fact dodgy (again, I have no expereince so can't say either way), that Market Thread post, if it is permitted to remain at all, or at least to remain without some flag alerting people to this thread, is like a potential venus flytrap.

And while they are at it they should look up the word "Complicity".

I'm amazed that members can be banned for comments in the Hyde Park forum but this guy can has been allowed to operate with impunity for years even in the face of overwhelming evidence that he can't be trusted.........

Compyfox · Post by **Compyfox** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 12:29 pm

The thing is... with the last Crysonic drama, a couple of users tried to ban the from KVR indefintiely and one of the mods asked for stories that he could collect, trim down and forward to Ben.

Barely anybody participated, so it vanished into thin sand.

The thing is... there are tons of threads already about this topic, people know and were warned up and down, yet some of the "naysayers" were pulled again to the dark side with the last "apology".

And what's even worse... if you talk about them, people won't forget them. So it's the best marketing they can ever get.

Teksonik · Post by **Teksonik** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 12:37 pm

Compyfox wrote:The thing is... with the last Crysonic drama, a couple of users tried to ban the from KVR indefintiely and one of the mods asked for stories that he could collect, trim down and forward to Ben.

Barely anybody participated, so it vanished into thin sand.

The thing is... there are tons of threads already about this topic, people know and were warned up and down, yet some of the "naysayers" were pulled again to the dark side with the last "apology".

And what's even worse... if you talk about them, people won't forget them. So it's the best marketing they can ever get.

The Mods are reading the same threads we are....or should be at least if they want to be Mods. That should be enough evidence. That's all the evidence I've needed over the years to formulate my opinion that Crysonic should be banned from KVR.

I hardly think that threads with titles like "Crysonic Scammers DO NOT SEND THESE PEOPLE YOUR MONEY" is positive marketing for this guy and his band of sock puppets.....

trimph1 · Post by **trimph1** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 12:51 pm

The point is that the mods did, in fact, specifically asked for the evidence of such claims and got next to nada on it. Ben probs does not have the time to go searching through skeins of threads with bickerfests going between those who had no issue and those who had issues.

If he goes through that again and asks for that evidence then DO IT!!!

JYM · Post by **JYM** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 12:59 pm

Bought the plugs in the no brainier deal, no prob no scam no worries no crap

Meffy · Post by **Meffy** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:23 pm

Teksonik wrote:I'm amazed that members can be banned for comments in the Hyde Park forum but this guy can has been allowed to operate with impunity for years even in the face of overwhelming evidence that he can't be trusted......... :shrug:

Then provide it. Evidence. Solid evidence of intentional misdoing. Not one-sided accusations that evaporate when I ask for hard proof, which is what happened last time this came up. I need hard proof itself.

I have no position on the company itself, no interest whatever in their products. If sufficiently convincing proof is provided that they're ripping customers off, I'll ban them. If such proof isn't provided, as it hasn't been in the past when I asked for it, I won't.

No need for amazement, see?

lingyai · Post by **lingyai** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:35 pm

Meffy wrote:
Teksonik wrote:I'm amazed that members can be banned for comments in the Hyde Park forum but this guy can has been allowed to operate with impunity for years even in the face of overwhelming evidence that he can't be trusted.........
Then provide it. Evidence. Solid evidence of intentional misdoing.

+1

Can it be so hard? A payment receipt, your follow-up emails aksing for the serials etc... A critical mass of these should do the trick. But it's the only right way to do it, IMO

Mushy Mushy · Post by **Mushy Mushy** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:40 pm

* flame suit on *

Every day I see a negative thread about Crysonics or Yellow Tools.
If you choose to still give your money to these guys, well quite honestly thats your fault.

* flame suit remains on *

bmanic · Post by **bmanic** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:47 pm

JYM wrote:Bought the plugs in the no brainier deal, no prob no scam no worries no crap

Yeah, and we can trust your 2 posts and the fact you just created this account to say exactly that.

Meffy · Post by **Meffy** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:47 pm

Personally I wouldn't send a dollar to this company, because I figure there's some fishy business going on. But that's me and my money, not my position as a moderator.

As far as KVR is concerned, assuming sufficiently convincing evidence is given, all I can do is ban their KVR account if they have one. I can't remove anything from the KVR database. Only Ben can do that and he is extremely resistant to that as he considers KVR's primary mission to be providing information, not judgements. I won't gainsay that.

[edit] What I'd rather do is work with disappointed customers to see that they receive what they paid for. That I can do if they cooperate.

Teksonik · Post by **Teksonik** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 2:42 pm

Meffy wrote:[Then provide it. Evidence. Solid evidence of intentional misdoing. Not one-sided accusations that evaporate when I ask for hard proof, which is what happened last time this came up. I need hard proof itself.

Can't you read? I can and that's all the "hard proof" I need. Or do you think everybody is just lying about getting ripped off? You have no problem banning members based on what you read in threads so why after all these years do you need anything other than the forum posts as evidence this guy can't be trusted? I'm not going to do the work for you, if you can't see what's happening after all this time I'll once again suggest you step down as a Moderator. Just read through the various Crysonic threads active at the moment and see the people who have paid and not received a product. That's fraud. Certainly it's not that hard to understand..........

Here's a sample if you can't be arsed to do your job......

hoth wrote:
Yeah, I bought into their last big promotion over a month ago. Didn't receive any license numbers. Emailed them again. No response. Emailed them again. No response. I am not happy and cannot recommend buying into this company long term.

What more hard proof do you need? Oh and look there's nXtasy up as the plugin of the hour....more free advertising for this shady guy.......

Complicity..........

For the record I've never bought anything from Crysonic because I learned years ago not to trust them and their placebo effects. It just irritates me to see people continuing to get burned by this guy and KVR will do nothing to stop it. You say Ben wants to provide information? Even false and misleading information? How does that help the community? Come on..........

Teksonik · Post by **Teksonik** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 2:44 pm

Meffy wrote:Personally I wouldn't send a dollar to this company, because I figure there's some fishy business going on. But that's me and my money

But you have no problem watching other people waste their money even though you think there is some "fishy business" going on? Incredible......

lingyai · Post by **lingyai** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 2:55 pm

At the risk of getting flamed....

I think that by "hard evidence" Meffy means, as I mentioned, forwaded copies of payment recipt emails, follow up "dude, where are my serials" emails etc. That is firmer evidence than a post which contains an allegation. The evidence Meffy seeks should be very easy to provide. I think Meffy is doing a the job properly here.

(Other folks get banned when they admit to using cracked software, for example -- in which case, their admission is all that's needed, because it's safe to assume no one is going to falsely incrimnate themselves. )

jupiter8 · Post by **jupiter8** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 2:56 pm

Teksonik wrote:Can't you read?

Can't you ?

Meffy wrote:all I can do is ban their KVR account if they have one. I can't remove anything from the KVR database. Only Ben can do that and he is extremely resistant to that as he considers KVR's primary mission to be providing information, not judgements.

What do you suggest he do exactly ?

Meffy · Post by **Meffy** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 2:56 pm

Teksonik wrote:Can't you read?

Read through hours of posts, some annoyed, others resolved, some by people who never posted again, some relevant, many not? Why in the world would I spend hours that I'm supposed to be working -- my bills aren't magically vanishing, and moderating KVR doesn't pay a penny -- doing that?

I ask those who have complaints to substantiate them. Substance means something I can present to Crysonic and expect them to make things right. That does not mean me ploughing through endless bickering to dig out the pearls that could be suitable for acting on -- assuming they haven't been resolved and the person involved didn't bother to post about it, in which case I'd look a right fool trying to "help" them.

I am offering to give some of my time to help people who feel they got a raw deal. I am not offering to spend all my time doing that. Anyone is welcome to take those terms or leave them if they think I'm being too greedy.

Crysonics -=- No Contact but finally a release. Be cautious when sending money . Read thread.