Boring melody rhythms?

[Loki Fuego]

isn't it better to narrow your influences, nay, narrow your spectrum of information, and pretend I know what I like and I like what I know is something wise?

I don't think so.

Isn't it better to skip something that is irrelevant to you rather than to waste time on it?
If someone into jazz and blues, it's better for him to first study jazz and blues. And the after that if he finds it relevant he could study classical music. Not the other way round.

[shankfiddle]

Isn't it better to skip something that is irrelevant to you rather than to waste time on it?
If someone into jazz and blues, it's better for him to first study jazz and blues. And the after that if he finds it relevant he could study classical music. Not the other way round.

I can see what you're saying, but I would argue that even if your passion lies in jazz and blues (ok go ahead and study them first) but studying other genres is in no way a "waste of time". ALL MUSIC IS INTERRELATED if you find a genre to be "irrelevant" then you don't know enough about the history of music and its development from chant-baroque-classical-romantic-modern-jazz-Cage/noise-rock/electric-SYNTHS

This is one whole big chain of events, it's silly to say that any piece is "irrelevant". I'm having a conversation with your face, so your torso, arms, and legs must be irrelevant...?

To all you DAW composers out there, a computer is nothing more than an extension of the mind. Computers have infinite potential ONLY BECAUSE the human mind has infinite potential. A computer cannot do anything that hasn't first been done in someone's mind... if you seed your mind with different genres, and different skills, your computer-based music will be better.

If you refuse to open your mind to new skills and experiences... then how is the computer going to generate better music?

[shankfiddle]

ALL of these threads about "I can't compose complex rhythms" "i can't come up with complex melodies" "I can't figure out this rhythm"

Is that an issue with technology that you can just find some new plugin to solve your problem?

Nope, that is a USER problem that can only be solved through learning

"but you don't have to learn skills to write music"
"true but you just asked me how to learn to write better music"
"but I don't wanna"
"ok..."
"but how do I get better?"
"learn new skills"
"but I don't wanna"
"ok...um..."

this is where we're at in these threads

[Loki Fuego]

This is one whole big chain of events, it's silly to say that any piece is "irrelevant". I'm having a conversation with your face, so your torso, arms, and legs must be irrelevant...?

When having conversation with me you're trying to reach my mind, thus my body becomes irrelevant

Of course it's always good to learn as much as possible. I.e. it's generally a nice idea to study physics in order to learn how musical intervals appear, or to study a psychoacoustics to learn how we perceive and react to sound, etc. But you can't learn everything. In order to achieve something you need to focus on achieving exactly that. So whenever someone tells person asking for a specific advice to go study classical music, music theory or to learn playing an instrument I consider it to be counterproductive and a symbol of elitism (or whatever you call it).

ALL MUSIC IS INTERRELATED if you find a genre to be "irrelevant" then you don't know enough about the history of music and its development from chant-baroque-classical-romantic-modern-jazz-Cage/noise-rock /electric-SYNTHS

Well, my opinion on some parts of musical knowledge being irrelevant is based on the fact that after studying some classical music I'm still finding it to be quite irrelevant to the modern electronic dance music. While studying classical music might give you some creative ideas that you would be able to use in making house music, it won't directly contribute to the quality of the music.

[geroyannis]

While studying classical music might give you some creative ideas that you would be able to use in making house music, it won't directly contribute to the quality of the music.

Ridiculous, of course it will.

[vurt]

Well, my opinion on some parts of musical knowledge being irrelevant is based on the fact that after studying some classical music I'm still finding it to be quite irrelevant to the modern electronic dance music.

william orbit would probably disagree, as would bt and many others i imagine.
that is to say, all music is music and therefore relevant to the musical experience.
when you start dividing into tribes, it stops being about the music...

[vurt]

not that im saying everyone should go and study this that or the other
but if you find your progress slowing and youre asking such questions as the op, then why not try something different? if it doesnt inspire, try something else...
follow your own path but be prepared for a little guidance along the way, everyone gets lost sometime or other

[Functional]

hahaha, I like turtles!

It's just silly when people want to improve their skills without doing any work. Everything you just described, cherishing the challenges as a way to grow and exceed your potential is what we've been saying.

That wasn't the point. The point was, I'm not into making covers of anything. I do, often, check out the midi files of a song that has melody/harmony that I found very clever and try to study on from there slowly and then proceed to make something that is heavily influenced by it. Usually it's the melody with changes. Though I don't publish them ever, I just see how they work out.

Now to proceed, I've done more reading on musical theory (today mostly about motives and melody indeed) and made some progression in this department as well, nothing major, but it's the slight bits that make up the whole, right?

seems to me you are doing hard work (without ever publishing results), for the sole purpose of learning new skills, and enjoying it \

i could go on speaking in analogies, but if my point hasn't been made by now, discussing further is a waste of energy... I'm going on a bikeride.

which is hard work, borderline painful, but it makes me happier, healthier, and stronger in the long-run.

Yeah, I do enjoy music a lot, my results so far are not published but I do have few people that I force to listen the stuff I've made, simply because hiding from everyone isn't something reasonable either. My own opinion perhaps is the most important to me, but disregarding others opinion will just slow you down.


And yeah, about hard work, ironically, my job kind of turned into the worst job around the terminal I work in. They took me in a couple of months ago, the people from union told me not to work too hard. Didn't listen and basically the thanks for that was that I got the worst job. And not the kind of, "someone has to do it anyway" way. Really complicated to explain the situation and well, irrelevant. Just ironic remark about working hard

Anyways, I enjoy challenges. I'm terrible at piano for now, for example, but I remember the moment when I could play the melody from Coldplay - Clocks, for the first time. It's not impressive feat, but it sure did make my day. I think that's the way it should go.

Playing with two hands is still a mystery to me, though, but I keep working on that, whenever I feel like it.

[Functional]

And honestly, about studying, it ain't a problem for me to study. Even know, I probably know too much about too many things. I never went to school to learn psychology, but I was interested in psychology, cognitive and behaviour psychology to be specific.

Was never good in history at the school, yet I know the details of second world war and most parties involved with it. How the germans could have had the atom bomb ready if it wasn't for a smart scientist who knew that it would be a disaster to have atomic bomb at disposal for Führer.

Or physics, wasn't good there either, but I sure do know a lot about space or how they try to seek out the god particle that was named Higgs Boson, even though the theory reminds me a lot about Leibniz (the guy who invented binary system) and his theory that would explain the whole world. But, it had a god in it. And without god, he would lose his head in those times.

Let's not even go into philosophy.

Downside of this all is, I only really try to seek out as much information as I can (and think of it myself as well) out of subjects I'm interested in. This was the primary reason for failing generally at schools. Couple of things that didn't interest me and there seemed to be no way around it, felt like forcing myself to learn subjects for which I don't care is just not the reality for me.



In the end, I'm happy for my choices. Maybe my wage ain't the best, maybe my job sucks, maybe my personality is something that many can't understand. But, I grew free.


So, anyway, TL;DR section!

As I've said before, it's easier for me to name genres I don't like than genres I do like, unless we count in subgenres. Any genre up to date originates from another that originates from another. They are all connected or even intertwined in one way or another.

In no way would I think that understanding classical music would not help me, or infact, for most other genres. I do have a feeling that rap for example wouldn't help me too much. Though I think rap itself can be amazingly impressive. They can come up with rhymes in a second, that I can't come up with possibly ever.

And learning things I like is like a passion to me. Even though schools never were.

[Nanakai]

And honestly, about studying, it ain't a problem for me to study.

Man, this topic sure has gone off the deep end.

It matters less what you like and more why you like it. No one can write a post that tells you how to make music that interests you, but they can write to help with specific problems. Take a song you do enjoy and recreate the melody on the piano. Play something in the same vein. When you reach an impasse, consult the internets. You may not feel like it for a while, but you'll be internalizing the music you love. Every minute spent in this exercise will pay off for the rest of your life.

[tapper mike]

I wonder about the last one.. consult the internets. Someone may find themselves here and the bitch session that ensues.


The topic title had to do with melodic rhythms. Not melodic lines or motif's or ostinato. Which is why I pointed out using lyric or even poetic content. Yes rhymes do rhyme but they don't have the same amount of syllables per line.

Working with what you have is always easier then working with what you don't.

[Nanakai]

Inspiration from other media is a great way to get ideas, but it doesn't really solve the OP's problem. If they feel they write boring melodic rhythms, then it begs the question, What do they find interesting? Never mind poetry or lyrics, rhythms can be generated by software and grafted on to a melodic pattern. But what would anyone actually gain from that? Even if that produced interesting melodic rhythms - which I do not doubt it would - unless the OP learns why they are interesting, no real gain has been made. If, as you say, "Working with what you have is always easier then working with what you don't" is true, then I would think that working with the OP's already established musical tastes is more reasonable than pursuing works divorced from the songs they love, no?

[tapper mike]

fair enough.

[Functional]

Then so be it, I'll focus more into what I like and try to understand why I like that.

For now, I do know, that the most interesting melodies I've really enjoyed seem rather foreign. A friend of mine, hardstyle producer, is about to finish off his track. While I couldn't care less for the genre, but I liked that specific song a lot, because it sort of was influenced by Egypt. Same goes to the melody of that popular song from Swedish House Mafia & Knife Party, Antidote. Well, not sure if I should rather call it motif.

But, if I had to choose most impressive that I know out of the dance genre, must be REJ by Dimitri Vegas & Like Mike

The shorter one starts at around 0:45, but the one associated with second climax is what sold me in this song.

However, synthpop (for the lack of better name) also kind of pulls me into it's direction. Hearing the older stuff from Röyksopp, anxiously waiting for The Knife 2012 album and appreciating the less known artists in the genre (Modwheelmood, Sonoio and other bands mostly somehow affiliated with Nine Inch Nails), it's still open option.


But for now, I'll focus on dance music.



On a sidenote, I've been experimenting with motifs, and gained generally results that I've searched for.

Though I had another thread earlier about melodies, but to affiliate that with here, I'm still kind of lost with them. For now, it feels that when I play safe with them, they become too safe, predictable probably by even people who never heard music and such.

But still, it was pretty amazing how much a motif can change something. It sure adds to it.

[Loki Fuego]

While studying classical music might give you some creative ideas that you would be able to use in making house music, it won't directly contribute to the quality of the music.

Ridiculous, of course it will.

Yeah, sure studying classical music is they way to learn how tune kick drum to the sound of the track. Or maybe it will teach how to develop tonal texture over modal melody.
Have you ever tried to teach someone who has studied classical music and piano for 10 years to make modern electronic dance music?