Just downloaded Reason 6.5 plus a couple of RE's from the shop...

[headquest]

Actually I don't agree with you. It means Propellerheads can now concentrate on new features when updating Reason instead of new rack devices. It means they can now prioritise stuff like audio quantize, mixer groups, midi out and improvements to the sequencer etc etc instead of new effects and synths.

From a commercial point of view, based on the actual figures I quoted, it is more profitable for them to be making RE devices. Unless they massively increase upgrade fees for the core programme that is. The three devices they are currently launching cost well over the price of a full Reason upgrade.

And they will still concentrate on the Reason core because major Reason updates are all paid for updates. What you are suggesting is like saying Steinberg won't update Cubase because they make money from selling VSTi's. Yes, but they also make money from selling new versions of Cubase.[/i]

The difference is that Steinberg makes more money from Cubase sales/upgrades, while Propellerhead, with the pricing they have implemented, will make more money from RE devices. The maths speaks for itself.

And let's be honest about it - if they were today launching Reason 7 including just those three RE devices there would be an outcry at the upgrade cost of 173 euros in terms of value for money

[v1o]

Fantastic!

Reason 6.5 works really great for me, with RE I'm probably back with Reason for a long time now.

The prices for RE plugins don't really matter, I'm simply going to support the companies who offer their products for the Reason platform.

Excuse me, but what's the REal difference between Reason and Reason+RE? I mean, RE is not VST (thousands of choices). What I actually see is a dozen 8-10 years old vst instruments now sold as reason racks. The day I can see Omnisphere, Kontakt, Pianoteq, Sampletank, Sylenth1, Reaktor, Alchemy etc. in Reason i will say "finally". But I doubt it will ever be done. "Swedish" RE prices, though... if i consider last week I bought AAS strum electric for 20$ and IKM CSR for the same price last month...

I'm more interested in devices designed specifically for Reason like Buffre. Than seeing the same old Omnishpere and Reaktor stuff.

[saturdaysaint]

The modular powers of the Reason rack really opens up with RE in ways that the VST framework currently doesn't offer.

Sound designers and twiddlers undoubtedly love playing with the routing and cables, but some of us just want to get on with making music...

Can you perhaps list a few practical examples of how the CV routing in Reason rack devices makes life easier or better for musicians?... stuff that VST plugs in a host such as Ableton can't offer?

Just curious as I haven't used Live in a while - how easy is it to apply an LFO to any given parameter (the filter frequency being an obvious target) in Live? Would creating an envelope with the pen tool be your only option?

With Pulsar you can create some crazy LFO variations by just touching one or two knobs or triggering a "pulse" which also has the effect of slowing or speeding or reducing the intensity of the other LFOs. Plus there are a million ways to trigger that "pulse" (keyboard input or a sidechain from another instrument or a step sequencer or a nudge of the mod wheel).

This kind of triggering is possible with literally every effect parameter in Reason, resulting in some pretty cool/complex patterned sounds - as rhythmic or crazy as you want.

[kmonkey]

The beta did not allow you to try REs w/o logging in with internet verification (dongle doesn't work for betas). I haven't tried the release version though so I can't say yet.

The way it worked for the beta was you went to the shop, you clicked on TRY and Authorizer opened and downloaded the plugin there. Are you getting any browser pop-ups asking to run external applications?

Thanks but it's not working. I guess it isn't possible for people without ignition key.

When i not log in to shop there are TRY buttons. As soon as i log in to shop TRY buttons disappear.

I tried it with several different browser just to eliminate browser issue.

I don't think this is nice. I was looking forward to try new Reason and new features. I am new user i mean i never owned any product from them. I was excited and i waited so long for nothing It does not make sense to me to eliminate people which don't own their dongle (steinberg?)

[JD Gaffe]

It does not make sense to me to eliminate people which don't own their dongle (steinberg?)

I hate this from Steinberg, it's literally the reason I won't ever buy Cubase. I need to have a dongle just to use the demo, what the hell is up with that.

[kmonkey]

It does not make sense to me to eliminate people which don't own their dongle (steinberg?)

I hate this from Steinberg, it's literally the reason I won't ever buy Cubase. I need to have a dongle just to use the demo, what the hell is up with that.

I guess it's because of piracy or something. I can't think of any other reason..

[ghettosynth]

The modular powers of the Reason rack really opens up with RE in ways that the VST framework currently doesn't offer.

Sound designers and twiddlers undoubtedly love playing with the routing and cables, but some of us just want to get on with making music...

Can you perhaps list a few practical examples of how the CV routing in Reason rack devices makes life easier or better for musicians?... stuff that VST plugs in a host such as Ableton can't offer?

Just curious as I haven't used Live in a while - how easy is it to apply an LFO to any given parameter (the filter frequency being an obvious target) in Live? Would creating an envelope with the pen tool be your only option?

With Pulsar you can create some crazy LFO variations by just touching one or two knobs or triggering a "pulse" which also has the effect of slowing or speeding or reducing the intensity of the other LFOs. Plus there are a million ways to trigger that "pulse" (keyboard input or a sidechain from another instrument or a step sequencer or a nudge of the mod wheel).

This kind of triggering is possible with literally every effect parameter in Reason, resulting in some pretty cool/complex patterned sounds - as rhythmic or crazy as you want.

In terms of actual power, MFL completely trumps Reason, but, it's not for the faint of heart. Nothing compares to Reason in terms of the power * ease of use. That said, however, the Reason model is irritating for really complex patches in the same way that a fully modular synth is irritating. The live model is much better, for example, in quickly deciding that I want that particular EQ to come after the compressor instead of before.

[Bronto Scorpio]

It does not make sense to me to eliminate people which don't own their dongle (steinberg?)

I hate this from Steinberg, it's literally the reason I won't ever buy Cubase. I need to have a dongle just to use the demo, what the hell is up with that.

The reason is very simple actually. If they'd offer a fully functional demo the dongle would become useless since the crack guys could simply crack the demo instead of the full version.

At least that would be my guess.

This RE stuff is really exciting. Makes me want to try Reason again. I'd never use it as a closed system to produce music with but as a super advanced modular synth or something
Sounds like a lot of fun to me

Cheers
Dennis

[kmonkey]

Just curious as I haven't used Live in a while - how easy is it to apply an LFO to any given parameter (the filter frequency being an obvious target) in Live? Would creating an envelope with the pen tool be your only option?

With Pulsar you can create some crazy LFO variations by just touching one or two knobs or triggering a "pulse" which also has the effect of slowing or speeding or reducing the intensity of the other LFOs. Plus there are a million ways to trigger that "pulse" (keyboard input or a sidechain from another instrument or a step sequencer or a nudge of the mod wheel).

This kind of triggering is possible with literally every effect parameter in Reason, resulting in some pretty cool/complex patterned sounds - as rhythmic or crazy as you want.

Hi! with MAxForLive something as LFO is deadly easy to do. Really plenty of controls. M4Live actually bring complete API tools just for this.

[kmonkey]

The reason is very simple actually. If they'd offer a fully functional demo the dongle would become useless since the crack guys could simply crack the demo instead of the full version.

At least that would be my guess.

This RE stuff is really exciting. Makes me want to try Reason again. I'd never use it as a closed system to produce music with but as a super advanced modular synth or something
Sounds like a lot of fun to me

Cheers
Dennis

Your guess is very wrong since they are offering FULLY FUNCTIONAL Reason 6.5 demo. You just can't re open your songs(for that you need igniton key). Yes you can even save them. That is only limitation. Why they can't do the same with RE extensions?

[v1o]

Actually I don't agree with you. It means Propellerheads can now concentrate on new features when updating Reason instead of new rack devices. It means they can now prioritise stuff like audio quantize, mixer groups, midi out and improvements to the sequencer etc etc instead of new effects and synths.

From a commercial point of view, based on the actual figures I quoted, it is more profitable for them to be making RE devices. Unless they massively increase upgrade fees for the core programme that is. The three devices they are currently launching cost well over the price of a full Reason upgrade.

That's based on the assumption that people will buy all 3 devices. When in fact people will only buy what they need and find useful. Some like me will not buy any of 'their' rack extensions.

And they will still concentrate on the Reason core because major Reason updates are all paid for updates. What you are suggesting is like saying Steinberg won't update Cubase because they make money from selling VSTi's. Yes, but they also make money from selling new versions of Cubase.[/i]

The difference is that Steinberg makes more money from Cubase sales/upgrades, while Propellerhead, with the pricing they have implemented, will make more money from RE devices. The maths speaks for itself.

And let's be honest about it - if they were today launching Reason 7 including just those three RE devices there would be an outcry at the upgrade cost of 173 euros in terms of value for money

A Cubase upgrade costs £168. Halion 4 VST costs £295. The RND plugin VST bundle costs £671.36. If you bought all of their VST plugins, you would spend well over a £1000. Steinberg clearly make more money from the individual sales of VSTs than Cubase updates.

When you buy a rack extension you only pay once. But with Reason you pay for the software and then you pay for any future upgrades. So the price is more £350 plus an infinite number of £99 increments for each upgrade.

And there is no way you tell if Propellerheads will make more money from their own Rack Extensions than upgrades without looking at the sales figures. Their 1st party RE devices might even flop compared to 3rd party devices. No one outside of Propellerheads knows. The maths are that a large percentage of Reason users still update their software. But in all likelihood even fewer will blindly buy all Rack Extensions.

And like I said before new Reason versions are likely to concentrate on new features instead of new devices. Freeing up resources for their programmers. There is no chance of those 3 rack extensions being included free with Reason 7.

[Kriminal]

neverminmd, i found it myself

[memyselfandus]

Wheres is the UHE stuff?

[ghettosynth]

Actually I don't agree with you. It means Propellerheads can now concentrate on new features when updating Reason instead of new rack devices. It means they can now prioritise stuff like audio quantize, mixer groups, midi out and improvements to the sequencer etc etc instead of new effects and synths.

From a commercial point of view, based on the actual figures I quoted, it is more profitable for them to be making RE devices. Unless they massively increase upgrade fees for the core programme that is. The three devices they are currently launching cost well over the price of a full Reason upgrade.

That's based on the assumption that people will buy all 3 devices. When in fact people will only buy what they need and find useful. Some like me will not buy any of 'their' rack extensions.

Of course not everyone would buy all three devices, but, they couldn't charge nearly $200 for an upgrade with only three devices either; look at the flap they got from the 6 upgrade. So, this is a natural way to do price discrimination, and, they can charge more for the individual components.

BTW: Theoretically, it's always more profitable to use an n-part tariff than to use a linear pricing scheme because the n-part tariff can be reduced to a linear pricing scheme. In practice, it's also generally true and I'm quite sure that they (props) have put significant thought into this. Of course, more profit from them means less consumer surplus for you, you should be irritated by that, but, you have to weigh that against the utility of having much more product variety within the platform.

To me, it's a worthwhile tradeoff.

[Amberience]

I noticed Bitspeek was more expensive than the VST version, I thought RE's were supposed to be cheaper since they were host locked.

I'd really like to know where you read this dude, because I didn't see it anywhere.