DAWs With Drum Pattern Editors...

[No_Use]

Have you looked into Cubase' Beat Designer yet ?
Wouldn't that be close to what you're looking for ?

(sorry if it has been mentioned already and I missed it)

http://media.soundonsound.com/sos/mar09 ... se5_08.jpg

My Cubase predates that. Must admit it looks like they're going with the FL method a bit there.

In the older versions of Cubase (I remember from SX) they also had a Step sequencer Midi plugin (StepDesigner I think it was called).

edit:
Yes, it's mentioned here:

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jan05/a ... enotes.htm

[Marcus797]

Have you looked into Cubase' Beat Designer yet ?
Wouldn't that be close to what you're looking for ?

(sorry if it has been mentioned already and I missed it)

http://media.soundonsound.com/sos/mar09 ... se5_08.jpg

My Cubase predates that. Must admit it looks like they're going with the FL method a bit there.

In the older versions of Cubase (I remember from SX) they also had a Step sequencer Midi plugin (StepDesigner I think it was called).

edit:
Yes, it's mentioned here:

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jan05/a ... enotes.htm

Cubase still has the Step Designer midi plug

and the Beat Designer

[FlipMartian]

Yep but the point of my original post is I'm looking to get away from Cubase. So I'm looking for a DAW which has an equivalent of the drum grid edit window in Cubase.

I checked out Acoustica's Mixcraft v6 which now has one. But it may be a bit lacking in pro features and its not as slick as Cubase in certain areas, definitely... Going to d/l Orion and have a play.

Edit. Orion grid editor not really what I was after but flexible. The rest of it is...a bit quirky for me. Looks nice though.

[LawrenceF]

I haven't used them all (so grain o' proverbial salt and all that) but I haven't seen anything quite like the Cubase Drum Editor... so it kinda depends on how you personally used it, whether something else will make you happy enough.

There's a heck of a lot good stuff in that thing. It's a really specialized tool with some unique features that may not (dunno) exist anywhere else.

[FlipMartian]

I haven't used them all (so grain o' proverbial salt and all that) but I haven't seen anything quite like the Cubase Drum Editor... so it kinda depends on how you personally used it, whether something else will make you happy enough.

There's a heck of a lot good stuff in that thing. It's a really specialized tool with some unique features that may not (dunno) exist anywhere else.

Beginning to come to that conclusion. Reaper and Mixcraft both have a grid editor of sorts but really, they ARE just rebadged piano rolls, with notes pasted on a grid; not "hits" which are all the same length (like I'm used to and can read easily). Orion has an editor a bit like the FL one but which has some great functionality hidden within which is quick and easy to get at...but the rest of Orion to me is not intuitive - I like to see every track laid out from start to finish and see where they all are in relation to each other. I didn't get that with Orion.

The search continues.

[LawrenceF]

Beginning to come to that conclusion.

Yeah, it really depends on what parts of it you actually used a lot. The mapping there is superb, being able to route individual note pitches to anywhere, being able to physically re-arrange the parts vertically and save the maps, not being concerned with controller filtering, soling and muting pitches with ease as if they're multitrack.

It's actually the thing I miss most of all from Cubase.

Dunno, but I haven't personally been able to sit in another DAW and just click assignments and switch a snare note between 3-4 different drum VI's (or hardware samplers) while the midi is still all on the same track, in the same clip... or have independent quantize values for every pitch preset. It's a pretty well thought out tool.

That's one of the things some miss about Cubase, that a single midi clip can play multiple different instruments, through it's output / pitch mapping assignments.

[highkoo]

That ol' Fruity rep still has some strength left.

Well, dont let a years old first impression casually dissuade your from checking it out, cuz the FL Step Sequencer absolutely fukking smokes anything mentioned here.
Just sayin.

Check some youube vids. Its funny.
I literally LOL at how drums work in Cubase and Reason. No wonder so many people love premade drumloops. I would too.

Sorry, but no it does not absolutely smoke everything else. It's a step sequencer. The OP is asking about Cubase's Drum Editor, which is completely different than a step sequencer. Honestly, it doesn't even make sense to compare the two. Step sequencers might be nice for sequencing hip-hop/electronic loops made out of individual samples, but they're not really suitable for laying out full-kit drum tracks using things like Superior, EZD, Addictive, and such.

Right right, Im totally off base.
He is asking about Cubase, riiight.
He was asking specifically about layering full kit drums, riiight.
Carry on.

[UltimateOutsider]

My drum tracks I like to create and edit in a proper drum grid editor - right back to my Atari ST days using a thing called Breakthru, I have preferred using a grid layout to do my drum tracks. I really can't get on with using a piano roll midi editor for drums.

Which non Cubase DAWs have a separate drum editor from the normal piano roll midi editor screen?

I mainly just wanted to shout out to a fellow ST alum. My first MIDI work was on Dr. T's KCS on a 520 STFM. Then moved to Cubase 1.0 on the Mac in the mid 90s...

Two years ago I spent a month or two immersing myself in Reaper, and this year I spent 3 or 4 months in Ableton Live.

Anyway, Live's Drum Racks are pretty cool and provide an interface similar to Drum Maps, with the caveat that you can only use it with instances of Live's built-in instruments or samples hosted in the DAW. (So, for example, no controlling Battery with it.)

As just a really cool and fun way to put together drum patterns, I'll mention Maschine. I've never had more fun assembling beats than in Maschine- but it is not a full-fledged DAW. You can program patterns entirely on the hardware or mouse them in on the UI- and because of the cool way kits are implemented, you can do things that would be a bit more complicated to achieve in Cubase (each drum sound in Maschine has a full chromatic range, so you can play kicks at different pitches, or only have to dedicate a single pad to toms, for example).

I wanted to find an alternative to Cubase, too- partly just for variety, and partly because I can't stand the way it handles all those Windows (Live's single-window interface was very attractive). But every time I wandered away I'd run into several issues where I couldn't do something without 3rd-party plugins that Cubase already had built-in.

[hma]

Not that anything about Renoise is comparable to Cubase buuut Renoise has this cool little step sequencer with quite enough configuration options.
http://www.renoise.com/tools/step-sequencer-lauflicht

[braj]

I just bought BFD ECO, and was looking at the upgrade path to the full version, and it seems to have a nice drum editor built in. IMO something like this is preferable to me than it existing in the DAW itself as it can manage the whole drum kit, including pattern library. I don't know about the cost yet, it is $200 more to get the upgrade, but if I were a serious drum nut I think I would go this route.

[siriusbliss]

Anyways - here's an older basic tutorial video from Kraznet showing Samplitude's drum editor (in Samplitude V11).
_note - more groove editing, etc. features have been updated in Samplitude ProX



Also included in Samplitude are native drum-type devices that include Beatbox2 (wav-based step sequencer), Loop Designer, Livid (embedded loops), Vita (ROMpler), Robota (Roland-esque step sequencer), Drum-n-Bass (random glitch-type sort-of step).
Most of these are best used as 'sketch-pad' type devices for quickly throwing together grooves, or sequences. Vita is based on Independence libraries and is of decent quality.

So many options these days.

G

[FlipMartian]

I mainly just wanted to shout out to a fellow ST alum. My first MIDI work was on Dr. T's KCS on a 520 STFM. Then moved to Cubase 1.0 on the Mac in the mid 90s...

Two years ago I spent a month or two immersing myself in Reaper, and this year I spent 3 or 4 months in Ableton Live.

Anyway, Live's Drum Racks are pretty cool and provide an interface similar to Drum Maps, with the caveat that you can only use it with instances of Live's built-in instruments or samples hosted in the DAW. (So, for example, no controlling Battery with it.)

As just a really cool and fun way to put together drum patterns, I'll mention Maschine. I've never had more fun assembling beats than in Maschine- but it is not a full-fledged DAW. You can program patterns entirely on the hardware or mouse them in on the UI- and because of the cool way kits are implemented, you can do things that would be a bit more complicated to achieve in Cubase (each drum sound in Maschine has a full chromatic range, so you can play kicks at different pitches, or only have to dedicate a single pad to toms, for example).

Howdy fellow ST-er I remember trying KCS back in the day and couldn't make head nor tail of it! I went from Steinberg Pro 12 to Pro 24 (briefly) before settling on Breakthru, which I loved.

I did used to programme via drum machine directly but my sense of timing isn't too hot these days (at least when tapping in beats), so editing on screen is a must for me. Never thought about Maschine to be honest as I've tried not to buy much hardware in the last few years. Will take a look though.

[FlipMartian]

Anyways - here's an older basic tutorial video from Kraznet showing Samplitude's drum editor (in Samplitude V11).
_note - more groove editing, etc. features have been updated in Samplitude ProX



Also included in Samplitude are native drum-type devices that include Beatbox2 (wav-based step sequencer), Loop Designer, Livid (embedded loops), Vita (ROMpler), Robota (Roland-esque step sequencer), Drum-n-Bass (random glitch-type sort-of step).
Most of these are best used as 'sketch-pad' type devices for quickly throwing together grooves, or sequences. Vita is based on Independence libraries and is of decent quality.

So many options these days.

G

Thanks, the guy in the video explains exactly why someone (like me) might want a grid editor. Never looked at Samplitude before, will take a closer look when I get home, thanks.

[knobs]

Sorry, but no it does not absolutely smoke everything else. It's a step sequencer. The OP is asking about Cubase's Drum Editor, which is completely different than a step sequencer. Honestly, it doesn't even make sense to compare the two. Step sequencers might be nice for sequencing hip-hop/electronic loops made out of individual samples, but they're not really suitable for laying out full-kit drum tracks using things like Superior, EZD, Addictive, and such.

Cubase's drum editor is not completely different than a step sequencer. Especially not a full featured one like FL's. It was a fine suggestion. Calm down.