Is CSR REVERB worth $40?

[Brian @ IK Multimedia]

I heard about that. I wonder how Michael Carnes leaving Lexicon will impact the future development and support of their reverb line?

[cowudders]

I heard about that. I wonder how Michael Carnes leaving Lexicon will impact the future development and support of their reverb line?

Totally hypothetical: What would happen to CSR, if Mr. Lind would stop working with IK? I'm sure it's not easy for somebody to step in, especially in this extremely specialized field.

[valhallasound]

I heard about that. I wonder how Michael Carnes leaving Lexicon will impact the future development and support of their reverb line?

Totally hypothetical: What would happen to CSR, if Mr. Lind would stop working with IK? I'm sure it's not easy for somebody to step in, especially in this extremely specialized field.

The CSR algorithms will work without Martin's input. My guess is that the 64-bit port of CSR was created by taking the original C++ audio algorithm code and the graphics assets (filmstrip knobs, background images, that sort of thing), and porting this to an entirely new framework. Odds are good that the GUI framework used by CSR back in 2006 can't be ported to 64-bits (this happened with a LOT of GUI frameworks), so it was easier & more robust to reproduce the GUI in the T-Racks framework.

A similar example, from my own work: I delivered the C++ algorithm code for Eos to the Audio Damage guys in 2009. The Audio Damage guys did the port to the VSTs and AUs, and created the GUI, preset framework, all that "plugin" stuff that makes things actually work. I think they later ported to VST3, without any input required from me.

The Lexicon plugins can be supported by new developers, without any assistance from Michael Carnes. Ideally, the new programmers would be familiar with Juce and audio plugins - otherwise, the ramp up time would be kinda long. The Juce support of AAX is pretty shaky, but a few developers have it up and running, so it is doable.

The bigger question is whether Lexicon will be developing new algorithms in the future. From what I can see (and I tend to keep track of my fellow reverb peoples ), Michael Carnes was the last of the original Lexicon guys left at Harman. It takes YEARS to fully understand a given reverb topology, and I don't know if there are any of the "old guard" left at Lexicon to transmit this knowledge to new folks. I have no insight into the current internal workings of Harman, so we'll have to wait to see what the future may bring.

Sean Costello

[Brian @ IK Multimedia]

Odds are good that the GUI framework used by CSR back in 2006 can't be ported to 64-bits (this happened with a LOT of GUI frameworks), so it was easier & more robust to reproduce the GUI in the T-Racks framework

The decision to include CSR in T-RackS CS was 100% because we want to expand the T-RackS line into all areas of studio rack gear. It made sense and was the right time to do it, and it ensures it will be well taken care of in its new home.

[Brian @ IK Multimedia]

The bigger question is whether Lexicon will be developing new algorithms in the future. From what I can see (and I tend to keep track of my fellow reverb peoples ), Michael Carnes was the last of the original Lexicon guys left at Harman. It takes YEARS to fully understand a given reverb topology, and I don't know if there are any of the "old guard" left at Lexicon to transmit this knowledge to new folks.

Yeah, as a musician and engineer, and a diehard fan of quality studio gear, this is what I was concerned about. I mean, forget for a moment about either of us having plugins to sell. In the case of IK, we have a great reverb and the means to support it, but we didn't make our name exclusively as the world's leading reverb developer for decades. Lexicon did, though. So Michael Carnes' departure came as quite a shock, especially since, as I understand it, it was Lexicon's decision, not his.

[vstparty]

So Michael Carnes' departure came as quite a shock, especially since, as I understand it, it was Lexicon's decision, not his.

WHAT???? Where is this info coming from? This is worse than Microsoft booting Sinofsky! What's next? God firing Jesus?

[cowudders]

Sean & Brian, thanks, very educational!

[ferez21]

Back to the original topic for a moment,
You can get D16 Toraverb now for 35$, from the demos it sounds really good.

[valhallasound]

Yeah, as a musician and engineer, and a diehard fan of quality studio gear, this is what I was concerned about. I mean, forget for a moment about either of us having plugins to sell. In the case of IK, we have a great reverb and the means to support it, but we didn't make our name exclusively as the world's leading reverb developer for decades. Lexicon did, though. So Michael Carnes' departure came as quite a shock, especially since, as I understand it, it was Lexicon's decision, not his.

This is one of the things that is fascinating about social media.

In the past, we would have had NO IDEA who Michael Carnes was. Well, I knew, but I worked at a company (Analog Devices) that had Lexicon as a client, so I dealt with Michael a few times. And I'm a massive reverb nerd. The point is, people were aware of Lexicon as the *brand*, as opposed to the people doing work at Lexicon. Same with most companies.

A few years ago, "Nobody Special" started posting at GearSlutz, answering questions about Lexicon work. It was pretty obvious to me who "Nobody Special" was, but to most people he was anonymous. However, the user name "Nobody Special" became associated with the current Lexicon products, as a guy who was doing the actual development. More importantly, he would answer questions about Lexicon gear, inasmuch as he was allowed to. "Nobody Special" ended up having a great reputation at GearSlutz.

Earlier this year, Lexicon let Michael Carnes go. Who knows why. When this happened, "Nobody Special" changed his user name back to his real name, introduced himself formally, and explained that he was no longer at Lexicon. Now all of the posts at GearSlutz that were labeled "Nobody Special" are labeled as being from Michael Carnes. More recently, Michael Carnes joined KVR and introduced himself.

Something that should be significant to you, Brian (given your job in social media): I don't think that there were ANY OTHER LEXICON VOICES posting in the various pro and music audio forums. Not only was Michael designing and coding the plugins and algorithms for the rack mount gear, he was the social media voice of Lexicon. I don't know if it was his official job, but he certainly took the time to fill that niche.

Flash forward to today. Lexicon announces a MASSIVE price cut. People are excited, which is the expected reaction. The unexpected reaction is that people started asking about the sale in relation to Michael Carnes: Will the Lexicon plugins be supported now that Michael is gone? Is it worth waiting for the Exponential Audio stuff? I can guarantee that this is NOT what Lexicon thought would happen when they parted ways with Michael Carnes.

So, what is the moral of the story? Not sure. It seems obvious, though, that in the world of forums, the person that you are talking with, and having actual conversations with, will have more of an impact than the nebulous concept of "brand," no matter how many billions of dollars your company makes each year.

As far as Lexicon's future? Who knows. Michael Carnes, meanwhile, should do just fine. I'm excited to see what he creates outside of the Lexicon brand. He has the knowledge to create plugins that are the equal of the Lexicon plugins (obviously, since he wrote them), but he can also create algorithms that wouldn't have fit into the Lexicon "legacy."

Sean Costello

[bill45]

I had an issue a couple months ago, While demoing the lxp bundle.
I filled out a support ticket, and got the problem solved, the same day.
The CSR plate, is real good.I have the uad emt140.These 2 are aples and oranges.

[ostfront]

A PCM 80/81 has totally different reverbs from the 90 (and CSR)

So which one is it modeled after, then?!

[kiezum]

Compared with Lexicon LXP/PCM, ValhallaRoom and Softube TSAR 1 Classik Studio Reverb is grainier.

Every reverb has its own qualities. I love Tsar-1, because it adds space without changing the source sound too much. The Lexicon Native has that sound... and you can add loads of reverb. I have to say I still use RenVerb occasionally. Very grainy, but nice character. I never use CSR. The reverb seems to be pasted on the source sound. Not that sense of space I am looking for.

I love the new ValhallaVintageVerb!

[Sal Handsome]

+1 to everything you said.

I am still astounded that he did not have a no-compete clause the size of Mt. Everest, especially given the fact that he holds the entire Lexicon technology in his brain.

Yeah, as a musician and engineer, and a diehard fan of quality studio gear, this is what I was concerned about. I mean, forget for a moment about either of us having plugins to sell. In the case of IK, we have a great reverb and the means to support it, but we didn't make our name exclusively as the world's leading reverb developer for decades. Lexicon did, though. So Michael Carnes' departure came as quite a shock, especially since, as I understand it, it was Lexicon's decision, not his.

This is one of the things that is fascinating about social media.

In the past, we would have had NO IDEA who Michael Carnes was. Well, I knew, but I worked at a company (Analog Devices) that had Lexicon as a client, so I dealt with Michael a few times. And I'm a massive reverb nerd. The point is, people were aware of Lexicon as the *brand*, as opposed to the people doing work at Lexicon. Same with most companies.

A few years ago, "Nobody Special" started posting at GearSlutz, answering questions about Lexicon work. It was pretty obvious to me who "Nobody Special" was, but to most people he was anonymous. However, the user name "Nobody Special" became associated with the current Lexicon products, as a guy who was doing the actual development. More importantly, he would answer questions about Lexicon gear, inasmuch as he was allowed to. "Nobody Special" ended up having a great reputation at GearSlutz.

Earlier this year, Lexicon let Michael Carnes go. Who knows why. When this happened, "Nobody Special" changed his user name back to his real name, introduced himself formally, and explained that he was no longer at Lexicon. Now all of the posts at GearSlutz that were labeled "Nobody Special" are labeled as being from Michael Carnes. More recently, Michael Carnes joined KVR and introduced himself.

Something that should be significant to you, Brian (given your job in social media): I don't think that there were ANY OTHER LEXICON VOICES posting in the various pro and music audio forums. Not only was Michael designing and coding the plugins and algorithms for the rack mount gear, he was the social media voice of Lexicon. I don't know if it was his official job, but he certainly took the time to fill that niche.

Flash forward to today. Lexicon announces a MASSIVE price cut. People are excited, which is the expected reaction. The unexpected reaction is that people started asking about the sale in relation to Michael Carnes: Will the Lexicon plugins be supported now that Michael is gone? Is it worth waiting for the Exponential Audio stuff? I can guarantee that this is NOT what Lexicon thought would happen when they parted ways with Michael Carnes.

So, what is the moral of the story? Not sure. It seems obvious, though, that in the world of forums, the person that you are talking with, and having actual conversations with, will have more of an impact than the nebulous concept of "brand," no matter how many billions of dollars your company makes each year.

As far as Lexicon's future? Who knows. Michael Carnes, meanwhile, should do just fine. I'm excited to see what he creates outside of the Lexicon brand. He has the knowledge to create plugins that are the equal of the Lexicon plugins (obviously, since he wrote them), but he can also create algorithms that wouldn't have fit into the Lexicon "legacy."

Sean Costello

[AudioGuy720]

+1 to everything you said.

I am still astounded that he did not have a no-compete clause the size of Mt. Everest, especially given the fact that he holds the entire Lexicon technology in his brain.

Much to many corporation's dismay non-compete clauses are prohibited in certain states. Also, when you're at the level of a Michael Carnes you have more wiggle room during contract negotiations.

Whatever the case may be, it's really none of our business. Can Michael deliver a good product? If the sample audio is any indication the answer is definitely YES!

[Uncle E]

The $40 I was refering to was the difference between the cost of the singles upgrade and this http://jrrshop.com/catalog/multimedia-t ... 13455.html I checked to make sure that the CSR was included.. Am I getting wrong information?

You're getting correct information, CSR is included in that bundle.