"Logic Pro X will eventually be sandboxed"

[dayjob]

Overall, I see this as a good time for Reaper, EnergyXT, Studio One, Live. That is to say, DAWs marketed by companies that don't hate their customers.

pretty much. and whacky indeed. what a drag. for a minute i was excited about the new macPro but i think when the 'i need a new computer" bug comes along it'll be a used silver tower.

several years ago the only reason i had a windows machine was for audiomulch.. today i have a mac because of logic and numerology..

[samsam]

While it's good to be informed I'll wait a bit before taking the most pessimistic view on the future of audio on Macs. The sky's not falling in just yet

[woggle]

Overall, I see this as a good time for Reaper, EnergyXT, Studio One, Live. That is to say, DAWs marketed by companies that don't hate their customers.

pretty much. and whacky indeed. what a drag. for a minute i was excited about the new macPro but i think when the 'i need a new computer" bug comes along it'll be a used silver tower.

several years ago the only reason i had a windows machine was for audiomulch.. today i have a mac because of logic and numerology..

I have almost bought a mac to run numerology - but now have an old mac which I don't use and am waiting for Loomer's new "Epoch" which should cover numerology and more.

So if worse comes to worse for you with the Apple control freak issues, by the time you have to cross to PC Loomer will have a product that can replace numerology

[SWAN808]

this may not be a popular question but in terms of AU sales is it possible that the reach of the apple store may nullify or be advantageous over a 30% cut that apple takes?

[Crandall1]

this may not be a popular question but in terms of AU sales is it possible that the reach of the apple store may nullify or be advantageous over a 30% cut that apple takes?

It's not going to open up some magic market that doesn't exist of people that would buy plug-ins if only they were available in a more restrictive environment, if that's what you mean.

I suppose it would cut down on piracy for like 10 minutes or something. So there's that. But the pool of pro- and semi-pro musicians is more-or-less fixed. What Apple discovered with including Garageband in iLife is that no matter how easy you make it to make music, it doesn't actually increase the number of people that are inclined to make music. And of those people so inclined, hardly any buy value-added content. (Which, at the end of the day, is what plug-ins are. Just like sample sets.)

Here's a thought: you can _never_ sell your App Store plug-in. You can't demo it. (Not that I particularly care, because I think demos are stupid anyhow. As our business model would suggest. And we do just fine, thanks for asking.) Getting a refund on one you don't like will be essentially impossible without extenuating circumstances.

In short, all the things that you're used to with audio plug-ins will cease to be.

[michael2]

never mind, just read the whole thread

[Alfalfa]

What Apple discovered with including Garageband in iLife is that no matter how easy you make it to make music, it doesn't actually increase the number of people that are inclined to make music. And of those people so inclined, hardly any buy value-added content.

Those of us converted to the idea that everything is better if it's on the computer are having to reconsider that concept. Especially in light of new fragmentation and roadblocks.

[kenporter]

Disregarding the cut that Apple would take on this, as a consumer I would actually prefer if all my plugins would be available through the App Store. This would mean one stop to get all my downloads, updates etc. Furthermore, it could mean that one wouldn't need a dongle anymore, which personally I'd love to get rid of my iLok and Syncrosoft dongles. Maybe it could even mean less pirated plugins, speculation only of course.

Propellerheads are taking their cut when doing REs and yes there are still some big companies that will have to jump on the wagon, the concept IMHO is awesome. Download Reason, log in to your account and sync your REs. I wish it was this easy with all of my plugins when using Logic or Live.

Obviously I am only speaking from a consumer point of view, but I would definitely welcome getting everything through the Apple App Store only.

Ken

[xh3rv]

Seems like a lack of imagination to not also explore features developers and users might really appreciate, IMHO. It's a shame because I think devs here have plenty of that kind of insight.

[t3toooo]

what have i just read?


an announcement for the new book from huxley "brave new music"?

[Jace-BeOS]

Disregarding the cut that Apple would take on this, as a consumer I would actually prefer if all my plugins would be available through the App Store. This would mean one stop to get all my downloads, updates etc. Furthermore, it could mean that one wouldn't need a dongle anymore, which personally I'd love to get rid of my iLok and Syncrosoft dongles. Maybe it could even mean less pirated plugins, speculation only of course.

Propellerheads are taking their cut when doing REs and yes there are still some big companies that will have to jump on the wagon, the concept IMHO is awesome. Download Reason, log in to your account and sync your REs. I wish it was this easy with all of my plugins when using Logic or Live.

Obviously I am only speaking from a consumer point of view, but I would definitely welcome getting everything through the Apple App Store only.

Ken

i'm kind of in this mindset, myself. i know that developers keep getting outraged at what Apple expects them to adapt to, and i myself hate how my hardware keeps getting obsoleted by new OS versions when the hardware companies wont keep supporting them (M-Audio bastards, with the ProjectMix and LightBridge products!!!!), but at the same time, i actually like what Apple does in terms of making the computing experience better for the USERS. Seriously, that's where it's at. Developers have always had a kind of need-hate relationship with users and i think this is just another example of growing pains involved in getting computers to be actually reliable and easy to operate appliances, rather than fractured landscapes of geekiness and specialist elitism. Yes, music-making has by nature it's own specialist knowledge, but COMPUTER music making has always been reported as more annoying, despite its amazing options. Most every interview with musicians/producers/bands includes some amount of hate for computers, and musicians are not necessarily computer geeks. Frankly, i will be very happy for the future times when computers are really truly evolved and mature devices that regular people can all use without feeling intimidated or by way of asking people like myself for assistance.

Also, i think GarageBand has indeed encouraged people to get into music-making. i'm not sure where Chris Randall's view on that statement comes from. i think his companies products and policies are awesome, but i sometimes wonder how they are what they are when his personal expressions around the web make him seem a much harsher person than the company otherwise suggests to me (as an end user that has never bought Audio Damage products, but has paid attention to their awesome service and prices; believe me, if i were still spending money, they'd be getting some... but i have none to spend).

[parma]

Disregarding the cut that Apple would take on this, as a consumer I would actually prefer if all my plugins would be available through the App Store. This would mean one stop to get all my downloads, updates etc. Furthermore, it could mean that one wouldn't need a dongle anymore, which personally I'd love to get rid of my iLok and Syncrosoft dongles. Maybe it could even mean less pirated plugins, speculation only of course.

Propellerheads are taking their cut when doing REs and yes there are still some big companies that will have to jump on the wagon, the concept IMHO is awesome. Download Reason, log in to your account and sync your REs. I wish it was this easy with all of my plugins when using Logic or Live.

Obviously I am only speaking from a consumer point of view, but I would definitely welcome getting everything through the Apple App Store only.

Ken

The big difference being that Rack Extensions are increasing the availability of different "plugins" while a sandboxed Logic would ostensibly decrease the availability of different plugins. Reason and Logic would arrive at the same point but with opposite trajectories if that makes sense. Developers might be more willing to let Propellerhead have their cut because Reason users are a completely new user-base that didn't previously exist before Rack Extensions. If Apple wants devs to fork over 30% just to be able to sell to the already established Logic user-base, devs are going to have to make one of these choices: 1. Swallow a 30% loss in AU sales 2. Raise prices on all standards (VST, AAX) to compensate 3. Raise prices only on AU versions to compensate 4. Drop AU entirely

1 is not going to happen. 2 is unlikely (nobody is going to want to pay extra to subsidize Logic users) 3 is unlikely (only the die-hards would stick with Logic if compatible plugins cost a third more just for the privilege of using them in Logic) . Which leaves 4 as the only viable option for many developers.

I agree that, from a consumer standpoint, being able to go to one single place to get all purchases and updates for your plugins would be nice. Maybe it would decrease piracy for "Logic approved" plugins, but people that are inclined to use pirated software will just move on to another non-sandboxed DAW. So in the end, I don't think the "reduced piracy" argument would be too persuasive to get devs on board.

[samsam]

App Store model for plugins would be rubbish - no demos, no refunds, no upgrades and no resales. And of course, all vetted by and cuts to Apple. Yummy.

[penguinfromdeep]

I don't necessarily see this as a bad thing, from a customer point of view. My message to developers is: 'deal with it' or...

Anyway, there's lot of speculation going on, we don't know for sure if the app store model for plug-ins would come to be and if, how it will be.

The new ios7 has some great features for musicians so Apple cares about this userbase clearly.

[secretkillerofnames]

So what yr saying is the $1000 worth of plugins I use with Logic Pro X will not work unless I pay for them via the app store?
Is that really possible?
If you pay for something and then they cripple it - that's a possible breach of Australian Consumer Law and they could be made to refund us. It would be like buying a car and then being told a year later that the car can now only use certain petrol. At very least there should be a way of not updating it to be sand-boxed. And I was growing to love the Logic Pro X workflow.
I do hope this is exaggeration.