ilok licenses on a dead hard drive?

[Hans25]

You can de-authorize the hard drive and authorize another in the iLok Manager... or transfer it to a dongle (and back - though I'm not sure about that one).

Regarding your last part I'm certain that you can't transfer the license from the hardware dongle to the software dongle. That's what I have read on several developers site. That you can have the license on a hard drive but if you transfer to the dongle then you can't go back.

Regarding the first part: Are you sure about that? I don't think you can de-authorize the hard drive if you don't do it from the hard drive itself. In theory you could then deactivate the licenses on a hard drive and put them on another but still be able to use it on the first one - if not connected to the Internet and not updating the License Manager.

If this procedure was possible there wouldn't be a problem. Of course you can do it if the hard drive is working but if you have a crashed hard drive you can't do it from another hard drive. And I don't even think that reinstalling everything etc. and the I-lok manager on the original hard drive (if the failure wasn't hardware related) would work because it's probably a combination of a written file & the hard drive unique serial/hardware number / whatever they use.

[T-CM11]

Of course you can do it if the hard drive is working ...

Yes, that's what I meant.

[Hans25]

Of course you can do it if the hard drive is working ...

Yes, that's what I meant.

Okok... that's what I thought also .

[Hans25]

Ok I already got a response from I-lok support staff to my question:

Hello,

You are correct, there is a difference in how replacements are generated.

In the case of iLok hardware breaking you can mail it in for replacement licenses.

In the case of storing a license on your computer, replacement licenses are similar to Lost/Stolen iLok RMA's where they are replaced by the developer. If you have a license saved locally on your computer but lose access to it by changing out parts of your computer you can contact the software developer who can give you a new license.

Best Regards,
iLok.com Technical Support

I have now replied with the following question to bug them a bit more:

Hi Ian,
So I have to contact every single developer to get the licenses back? Can I ask why this is not going on centralized like with the hardware dongle?

And are the developers required to issue new licenses according to the I-lok agreement so I can demand new licenses?

Best Regards

From the ILok website regarding stolen or lost ILoks:

Broken, Lost or Stolen iLoks:
If your iLok is broken, lost or stolen, the first step in getting replacement licenses is to place a Return Merchandise Authorization (RMA) report for the iLok. ....

...For a Lost/Stolen iLok RMA, if your iLok has Theft & Loss Coverage enabled, we replace your licenses. If the Lost/Stolen iLok did not have Theft & Loss Coverage, we are not authorized by the software companies to do the permanent license replacements. You would need to contact the software companies directly regarding getting replacements for the lost licenses....

https://www.ilok.com/#!support/help/102 ... /102029704

[Hans25]

I'm beginning to think that using $30 for zero down time isn't such a bad idea after all. It's a one time fee and covers broken, stolen and lost ILoks. For stolen and lost ILoks you have to enable the "TLC" option (it's free).
https://www.ilok.com/#!zdt-coverage
If you have purchased the Zero Downtime the ILok team are allowed to send you the licenses immediately. But does this also apply to the soft-ILok licenses? Hmm it must.

[Hans25]

Ok next update. I got this response from their support (to my last question):

Hello,

The service we provide with our hardware allows us to be centralized as we can secure the licenses by association between the firmware on the ilok and the interaction with the database. Since your hard drive is not governed by our firmware we cannot guarantee the removal of licenses as we could an iLok. This prevents us from being able to issue replacements for licenses as the software companies are experimenting with this system of activation and this allows them to be involved in the process as well as make the decision for issuing replacements.

As far as the iLok agreement, I believe it is mentioned that the user is expected to deactivate the licenses before major hardware changes and are not contractually obligated to offer replacement licenses, but so far the people who have lost access to their computer based licenses have been getting replacements for free.

Best Regards,

I have now asked the following question because I don't think it's obvious if the Zero Down Time covers the Soft ILok licenses too:

Hi Ian,

Thanks a lot for the explanation. As a last thing I would like to know if the Zero Down Time product covers ILok Software Licenses. You explained that the soft-ILoks are interpreted as Stolen/lost if a hard drive crashes and the licenses are lost.

When I go and look at the Zero Down Time product there is no mentioning of the Soft License for ILok.
https://www.ilok.com/#!zdt-coverage

Is the Zero Down Latency available as a product for the ILok Soft Licenses? And if not couldn’t it be by transferring the lost software ILok Licenses to a hardware ILok dongle by either sending a new one to the user or by reissuing the licenses to a spare hardware ILok dongle that the user has physically in the case of a hard drive failure. If this isn’t possible I would strongly encourage you to make that product available.

The user could then benefit from having soft ILok licenses not needing the extra usb-slot and if the case of hard drive failure occurs then the licenses can be reissued to a hardware ILok-dongle by having purchased the Zero Down Time product.

Thanks in advance.

Best Regards

[Hans25]

Ok I got another reply from I-Lok-support service:

Hello Hans,

Thank you for your input. Unfortunately ZDT cannot be used for a "soft" license as ZDT is based around the hardware itself.

I believe the reason for this is as I previously mentioned where there needs to be absolute certainty of the removal of the old soft license before we are authorized to offer replacements or temporaries. I believe this is being worked on currently as if we can reach the level of cooperation between as we do between an iLok hardware and our servers between the hard drive and our servers, we can perform all the services we can for both models.

The only problem is this requires a certain level of access which may be more than the average consumer would want to give access to. We are trying to develop a safe and secure method to allow these soft licenses without having to have too much access to the user's hard drive.

Best Regards,

[Hans25]

Now I have a final input from I-lok support:

I replied this to the staff's last message:

Hi Ian,

Thanks for the explanation. If you could make a solution for I-lok soft licenses with ZDT I think that more people would go for plugins with ILok protection. From what I’ve heard people state it’s the inconvenience with Pace/ILok that’s making them resist buying plugins with ILok security.

I see the problem with access to hard drive etc. But I’m thinking that if you would swap a stolen/lost ILok with a new one (as stated on your website) then you could as well do the same with a crashed hard drive because the risk of a false report is the same. Couldn’t you in principle report the ILok hardware dongle lost and then get a new one sent. Then install an old version of ILok Manager or something on another computer without Internet access and use the reported lost ILok on that one without ILok knowing about it? Don’t misunderstand me this is absolutely not something I’m encouraging. But it’s just that if the risk or uncertainty is the same, then reporting a soft-elicense crashed hard drive would be the same kind of situation.

If someone should benefit from selling the spare ILok soft licenses he would have a lot of troubles like being forced to sell the hard drive with the licenses. Adding or removing licenses would also be impossible. And connecting to the Internet and updating ILok manager would make the licenses unusable. Reinstalling the OS would also be impossible. I don’t think that many people would try to do that and furthermore the ones already paying for the software are less likely to try to benefit from this kind of action. Furthermore people have registered their account with name and address etc. so doing such a thing wouldn’t be riskless. And if a user reported a crashed hard drive regularly the support staff would probably with good reason be suspicious.

Best Regards

The reply was this:

Hello,

Thank you, those are some good points that I will be sure to pass on to the engineering team. There is always a certain level of monitoring that occurs to try and prevent fraudulent use, but we need to not only have the technology set up, but get developers to agree legally. I hope to have this feature in the future when we fully develop it.

Best Regards,

[Hans25]

From the above conversation I think that you can conclude that for now having the I-Lok soft-dongle is more risky or cumbersome than the hardware dongle in the occation that your hard drive crashes. Where you can get a new I-lok and Zero Down Time with the hardware dongle your only option with I-lok soft dongle is to contact each developer and beg for new licenses.

Hopefully they will make a Zero Down Time option and insurance for the soft i-lok license dongle in the future.

[planetearth]

From the above conversation I think that you can conclude that for now having the I-Lok soft-dongle is more risky or cumbersome than the hardware dongle in the occation that your hard drive crashes. Where you can get a new I-lok and Zero Down Time with the hardware dongle your only option with I-lok soft dongle is to contact each developer and beg for new licenses.

Hopefully they will make a Zero Down Time option and insurance for the soft i-lok license dongle in the future.

Well, thanks for looking into this. It seems you're right...unfortunately.

Steve

[MFXxx]

Thanks for the updates Han's. Good of you to take time with the dialogue.
Personally speaking I have always stayed with the single To me it makes sense for portability and experience of previous hard drive tied software.

I view the ilok as a positive convenience in regards to portability and a necessary evil. Only have to look at Waves transition and I do resent the never ending reauthorising of Korg software...almost makes you want to seek out an easier method!!!!

My view is nothing in this life is forever or infalliable.

I'm on my first ilok and coming up to year 4. I have a spare ilok and will be moving all licenses onto the new one just in case sometime soon. In the bigger picture, its not a lot of money. But then I dont spend £3 on a pint every night. Portability is straight foward and no riskier than taking any other instrument or kit on the road. Common sense and ingenuity.
A lot of developers issue 2 codes or rarely have issue replacing. I would imagine codes can be blacklisted fairly easily.
Kush are now issuing 2 codes for 2 ilok as of now and Slate digital have always been extremely supportive and generous as a company.
Hope you get yourself sorted soon.
Could be a lot worse and be glad it's not crysonics or UAD, that's one he'll of a dongle.

[Hans25]

Well, thanks for looking into this. It seems you're right...unfortunately.

Steve

Your welcome. At least it's nice to know the hard facts instead of being uncertain. Let's hope they take care of the risk by using the soft-dongle fast.

[Hans25]

Thanks for the updates Han's. Good of you to take time with the dialogue.
Personally speaking I have always stayed with the single To me it makes sense for portability and experience of previous hard drive tied software.

I view the ilok as a positive convenience in regards to portability and a necessary evil. Only have to look at Waves transition and I do resent the never ending reauthorising of Korg software...almost makes you want to seek out an easier method!!!!

My view is nothing in this life is forever or infalliable.

I'm on my first ilok and coming up to year 4. I have a spare ilok and will be moving all licenses onto the new one just in case sometime soon. In the bigger picture, its not a lot of money. But then I dont spend £3 on a pint every night. Portability is straight foward and no riskier than taking any other instrument or kit on the road. Common sense and ingenuity.
A lot of developers issue 2 codes or rarely have issue replacing. I would imagine codes can be blacklisted fairly easily.
Kush are now issuing 2 codes for 2 ilok as of now and Slate digital have always been extremely supportive and generous as a company.
Hope you get yourself sorted soon.
Could be a lot worse and be glad it's not crysonics or UAD, that's one he'll of a dongle.

Your welcome. Like I wrote above it's better to know the hard facts than to have uncertainty.
I think I will buy the ZDT very soon to my hardware dongle. I have sorted my ILok problem.

Actually my scenario was a situation they describe on their website. For no reason my Sequencer complained about a big part of the licenses were missing or not active. I tried to deactivate them and activate them and the same thing happended over and over again. Luckily I had a spare ILok so I took each license and deactivated it and tranferred to the spare ILok. So I'm grateful that it at least was possible to remove the licenses from the faulty dongle. I just don't want to repeat this scenario or a worse one in the future.

Like you say nothing lasts forever .

[Denstrow]

Actually my scenario was a situation they describe on their website. For no reason my Sequencer complained about a big part of the licenses were missing or not active. I tried to deactivate them and activate them and the same thing happended over and over again. Luckily I had a spare ILok so I took each license and deactivated it and tranferred to the spare ILok. So I'm grateful that it at least was possible to remove the licenses from the faulty dongle. I just don't want to repeat this scenario or a worse one in the future.

Like you say nothing lasts forever .

Sorry to derail this conversation for a bit, but I'm having a similar issue at the moment - same type of errors from random iLok plugins in Cubase out of the blue these past 10 days. I assume you tried several things without any luck like I did (reinstalling plugins, Pace drivers etc). Did Pace suggest the iLok was damaged and you move your licenses to another iLok or did you just do it and it solved your problem? I've yet to test it on another computer, and everything seems ok in the License Manager, iLok lights up, so I thought maybe it isn't a faulty iLok, but I'm not so sure.

[Hans25]

Sorry to derail this conversation for a bit, but I'm having a similar issue at the moment - same type of errors from random iLok plugins in Cubase out of the blue these past 10 days. I assume you tried several things without any luck like I did (reinstalling plugins, Pace drivers etc). Did Pace suggest the iLok was damaged and you move your licenses to another iLok or did you just do it and it solved your problem? I've yet to test it on another computer, and everything seems ok in the License Manager, iLok lights up, so I thought maybe it isn't a faulty iLok, but I'm not so sure.

You are not derailing anything . I must confess that I didn't try the faulty ILok on another computer to see if it was something else than the ILok it self. By coincidence I had a spare ILok and I was able to deactivate all licenses on the faulty ILok and put them back in the "cloud". Then activated them on my new ILok and the problem was solved. The faulty ILok was one I got from soundsonline (East West) but I had so much to do that I didn't felt it was worth sending the faulty ILok and getting a new one when I had the spare one and the licenses functioned with that.

I didn't have any communication with the ILok team about it. I just thought that if I could move the licenses then I could try to deactivate them and take them back to the spare ILok. So I didn't try to re-install or anything like that. I'm on Cubase too.

The faulty ILok looked exactly like it should in the License Manager and the blue light was on. For some reason the licenses were not recognized in Cubase (by the ILok system). Before I tranfered the licenses to the spare ILok I actually tried to deactivate the licenses to the cloud and then reactivate them on the faulty one. What happend was that the first 2 or 3 times when reactivating the licenses I got an error - but then the 4th time or something like that I succeded. But that didn't work in Cubase either. So obviously something was wrong.

If you have a spare ILok or are going to buy one an trying the deactivate the licenses and send the to the new ILok then: DON'T try to send the licenses directly from the faulty ILok to the new ILok. That could ruin the licenses. Try to deactivate each license to the license cloud and then reactivate them on the new ILok. And for God's sake DON'T try to deactivate more than one license at a time. I read that if an ILok has this problem trying to move more than one at a time could also ruin the licenses.

Hope this helps a bit.