Nexus 2 vs Avengers sound quality?

[egbert101]

<delete>

[tedannemann]

@walker1

I own both synths and can underline what woodesdenis said. Nexus is more a "rompler" (cp. Korg M1) and Avenger is more a "synthesizer" (cp. Korg Polysix). Both can make use of samples and both have a synth engine (yes, Nexus also has a synth engine under the hood, however it is only open the the expansion pack sound designers, you also can't import your own samples).

Actually it's quite simple:
If you just want ready to "play" commercial sounds, and just need a little tweaking here and there go for Nexus.
If you want to "create" sounds and like to "tweak" a lot go for Avenger (this thing is a beast in terms of functionality).

Which is better you ask? I think this heavily relies on the sound designer. As Vengeance and reFX are somehow interwoven you get high quality EDM / Club sounds from both synths as Mr Schleis, Mr Hinz and Mr Ruta are designing / sampling for both companies - if it's just preset design for Avenger or sampling hard and software synths for Nexus - you can't go wrong with any of them if you are looking for the finest commercial EDM / Club sounds (imho).

Regarding sampling other synths. Sometimes Nexus patches consist up to 16 layers from different sources (including the own synth engine) - these sounds are far far away from primitive sample robot / samplit / auto sampler patches. These sounds are crafted with knowledge and accuracy containing an arsenal of modulations and fx making them highly usable and playable.

Despite the statement from reFX there are circulating quite a few user presets for Nexus as you can save your own (little altered) presets and favorites or you can rename the factory presets for your own convenience. However it doesn't really make sense, as you can't go under the hood - so the tweaking is limited.

[Nielzie]

I guess in the future quite a few new Nexus sounds will be made in Avenger.

[Robmobius]

I like the sound of Avenger a lot... Besides the fact, that you can do a lot more with it. You could end up with a sizable cash investment with Nexus. Assuming that you want to start buying trough the available sound libraries.

With Avenger you could program the majority of the sounds anyway (there's not a lot Avenger can't do). Plus, you can also buy 3rd party libraries which will be a lot cheaper in the long run.

[woodsdenis]

The one thing Avenger will never do is the multi sampling/velocity layering /round robin sample playback of Nexus. Not a concern for me as I think that kind of thing is firmly planted in the Kontakt domain. The Nexus sample engine seems perfectly capable of doing its job for the type of sounds it was built to produce and it does so very efficiently with a small footprint.

[Razzia]

I always thought the question of sound quality in a synth (or in Nexus's case, rompler) is kind of a ridiculous conversation to have at all. Where people talk about "sound quality" I take that to mean (A) audio fidelity and/or (B) accurate representation of its subject matter. Where in the case of (A) Nearly all VSTi, just like all DAWs' sound engines, are built on mathematical principles that make them practically indistinguishable from one another without (and even sometimes with) analyzers and metrics that I don't even understand... and (B) the most perfect sawtooth wave is not necessarily the most pleasing sound - see u-he synths, with their deliberately, painstakingly built-in imperfections.

And finally if you're talking about audio fidelity, consider who you are trying to impress. If you're trying to make it big as a musician, most people will hear your music on laptops and iphones. I promise you NOBODY will say "wow, I bet he did this on Avenger instead of Nexus. Listen to the pristine audio quality on that synth lead!"

So the question of Nexus vs Avenger is very simple: are you a sound designer or are you not? Frankly, Avenger might be the best sound design workhorse I've ever used. It's biggest--and practically its only--limitation is that it currently only supports serial filter routing, so you'd have to duplicate an oscillator to do parallel filter routing. It also only supports basic FM since you're limited to one modulator per carrier. Aside from that, it can do practically everything under the sun and the suite of FX included in it is worth more than the price of the synth. If that sounds like a bunch of jargon to you, stick with Nexus; unless I'm mistaken, the people making the preset expansions for the two VSTi are the same people, so they're likely to be similar in quality, if not content as well.

Beyond that, Avenger has Nexus's filters included, as well as some of, if not all, its built in FX. So I'd say their sound quality is probably pretty much identical

[sircuit]

Document formats are not copyrighted. If you can figure out how they work, you can create your own and sell them. Just like anyone can create a software that reads those files.

It's as absurd as a certain sound designer forbidding presets he did for one synth to be loaded into another synth. It's simply not his call as long as those presets were obtained legally.

TL:DR even if one could make banks they could not be loaded in Nexus as it's impossible to add new banks to the master key (except for reFX, of course).

TL If I am not mistaken, things are like this: every time a user purchase a new bank (the only place for getting such banks being reFX website) the respective sound bank is added to a so-called "master key file". And every time one wants to import a bank, one must download the new bank + the updated master key file. Nexus will not import any expansions unless those expansions are added into the master key file. And the master key file is checked against the eLicenser dongle serial number. So it's not even possible to move the Nexus licence to another dongle without requesting a new master key coded with the new dongle serial number. - I mean, is possible but best case scenario it will load just the factory banks.

[Urs]

Interesting, thanks. I wonder if they'd make more profit with an open format though. Kind of stupid idea to close things up. If it's for copy protection of their own banks, they could still add that anyway.

[sircuit]

The banks (I mean the presets inside) are not only samples. Some new presets use samples from factory library, some presets are a blend of oscillators and samples, and sometimes round robins. Plus, there are 64 oscillators/sample players in Nexus and some presets use a whole bunch of them (and additional FX chains under the hood) - I think is somehow difficult to reissue all banks under an open format, that is, such capable format exists.

I have a shopping cart at reFX since 2015 with Nexus2 and few expansions (which I revisit from time to time) and I'm still not convinced that I need it

[tedannemann]

Beyond that, Avenger has Nexus's filters included, as well as some of, if not all, its built in FX. So I'd say their sound quality is probably pretty much identical

Where do you get this information from? I had the impression that Keilwerth Audio (the German based company actually coding the Vengeance stuff) did develop nearly all elements themselves except the ArtsAcoustic reverb (as well as the usual open source code, classes, objects and so on used by most developers).
I had the impression that they started with Multiband Sidechain, PhiltaXL, all the Essential FX bundles, Phalanx and finally merged it all into Avenger.
I didn't hear that Michael Kleps or reFX (Canada based) had anything to do with the actual development of the Vengeance stuff?

[ATS]

Nexus sounds way better to me

[exmatproton]

Beyond that, Avenger has Nexus's filters included, as well as some of, if not all, its built in FX. So I'd say their sound quality is probably pretty much identical

Where do you get this information from? I had the impression that Keilwerth Audio (the German based company actually coding the Vengeance stuff) did develop nearly all elements themselves except the ArtsAcoustic reverb (as well as the usual open source code, classes, objects and so on used by most developers).
I had the impression that they started with Multiband Sidechain, PhiltaXL, all the Essential FX bundles, Phalanx and finally merged it all into Avenger.
I didn't hear that Michael Kleps or reFX (Canada based) had anything to do with the actual development of the Vengeance stuff?

The Nexus filters are included

nex24.JPG

[tedannemann]

Included, yes. But one had the impression that Avengers and Nexus filter are the same.There are only included and selectable.
The overall filter types (47 types incl. the NEX ones) are developed by Keilwerth?

[Coockie1176ln]

Included, yes. But one had the impression that Avengers and Nexus filter are the same.There are only included and selectable.
The overall filter types (47 types incl. the NEX ones) are developed by Keilwerth?

Its the same filter nexus and that on picture above! I know because i save manuels videos on how to use it and he mentioned it same as nexus.

[Dizac]

i just want to say that to my ears and to my knowledge Nexus Sounds better than Avenger BUT!!! That dont mean is better ,i still think avenger is better just bcz i amble to do my own sounds BUT i was so disappointed the way Avenger sound!!! i actually did a test and and i compare with a oscilloscope Serum and Avenger and Avenger int Saw wave and sine where perfect no extra harmonics nothing at all!! in the other hand Serum had a few harmonics but thats when it comes my advise to future software developers dont focus more on getting everything perfect analog sounding or digital forget all of that, the character of your next product could depend on that settle adjustment ... in conclusion Avenger sounds to dull and not that good and when it comes to other Analog emulation they are better out there but in digital world Serum still my go to