Propellerhead Reason 9.5 known VST issues (plug-in list)

[kmonkey]

I'm seeing a touch less CPU usage, so maybe it's your system and not Reason?

Why and how? I have default Reason installation.

On same system i am running three vastly different host all of them behave in same manner. Cubase Artist, Ableton and Reaper. All of them get me same performance with Reaper being on top. Example i can load (i said it and tried yesterday again) 10x Bazille synth. Same midi clip, same notes. Press play. My system is maxed around 50% and i can still load plenty i mean plenty of other stuff. Which seems reasonable since i have i7 4ghz and a lot of ram. All of my DAW share same buffer size and frequency rate of 44khz. Reason included.

Reason can not load not even half of that. Plus like i said i added simple Redrum and Bazille. It says in Reason DSP meter only one BAR is used but even so - closing and opening Bazille GUI gives me issues.

I am calling this is Reason fault and how VST is implemented.

I tried yesterday (for the sake of test) to install FL Studio demo. I am having same outcome in FL Studio jsut the same as in other 3 DAW. So basically i tried 4 different DAW applications. All of them behave same when it comes to performance. Reason does not.

Edit: another example - i can load Acustica 10x Ebony and 10x Gold strips in any of mentioned hosts and work from there with room left. In Reason i can only load 1x Ebony and 1X Gold and sound is starting to crackle.

Mind you on same system i have Adobe Cloud - content creation applications and 3Dsmax everything i mean really everything runs super slick. Only Reason does not.

AFAIK other users reported same issue so my opinion was that it's not me or my system it is Reason VST ppor performance and all i wanted is to report it here so dev. can take a notice.

edit: of course it would not be the first time i am doing something wrong and i am open to suggestion. If anyone know some weird or less weird advice or something i don't know i am willing to try it in Reason. So far like i said Reason is under default installation no some sort of modification.

[DJMaytag]

FWIW, I'm not expecting 100% of everything to work properly with VST's in Reason right out of the gate. There are going to be some bumps in the road.

Have you ever considered that a setting in your OS and/or BIOS could be the underlying problem? IIRC, you said you overclocked your system, and I thought overclocking wasnt a thing since we started having multi-core processors?

Have you considered that maybe there's an issue with Bazille that went unnoticed until now, that let it run fine on older DAW's but it causing a hiccup in Reason? I'm a bit surprised that Props didn't decide that all VST's in Reason needed to be newer VST3, eschewing some older legacy VST's. Maybe they did and anything older than VST 2.x and older won't work as well? Who knows?

I think it's a mistake to come out with guns blazing, pointing fingers at Props FIRST ATTEMPT at using VST's. Give them some time to work it out.

[Anosou]

FWIW, I'm not expecting 100% of everything to work properly with VST's in Reason right out of the gate. There are going to be some bumps in the road.

Have you ever considered that a setting in your OS and/or BIOS could be the underlying problem? IIRC, you said you overclocked your system, and I thought overclocking wasnt a thing since we started having multi-core processors?

Have you considered that maybe there's an issue with Bazille that went unnoticed until now, that let it run fine on older DAW's but it causing a hiccup in Reason? I'm a bit surprised that Props didn't decide that all VST's in Reason needed to be newer VST3, eschewing some older legacy VST's. Maybe they did and anything older than VST 2.x and older won't work as well? Who knows?

I think it's a mistake to come out with guns blazing, pointing fingers at Props FIRST ATTEMPT at using VST's. Give them some time to work it out.

For what it's worth, implementing VST is very complex. It's not as easy as "here's the standard, everyone follows it" because they don't. In fact, many hosts and plug-ins have specific code for host/plug-in combo to overcome some things here and there. And we just got started.

We'll keep improving our VST implementation, and Reason in general of course, for the foreseeable future so all feedback is very welcome. Hyper threading was just a performance improvement that, overall, would help many people but it's not a one-stop solution that will greatly increase performance on all systems. We'll keep on trucking!

[DJMaytag]

For what it's worth, implementing VST is very complex. It's not as easy as "here's the standard, everyone follows it" because they don't. In fact, many hosts and plug-ins have specific code for host/plug-in combo to overcome some things here and there. And we just got started.

Right, and this is a exactly why I've switched to Reason for producing, as I wanted to use Expert Sleepers hardware + Silent Way VST plugin suite with my modular synths and vintage analog gear, but... they work WAY better in Ableton due to some ways that Live can handle I/O routing that Cubase just can't do (probably because Steinberg adheres to the VST SDK spec... or they want to force devs to write/upgrade to the VST3 SDK specs for I/O).

Forget having to rely on the DAW's I/O handling... I just hit TAB and wire the VST's up as I see fit! Now my modular is humming along, with LFO's in Reason modulating the filters in my hardware synths!

[loungepanda]

I'm also not seeing much of an improvement. A single Hive arp that might use 2-3% CPU (in Task Manager) in Live 9 uses 10-18% in Reason.

[kmonkey]

FWIW, I'm not expecting 100% of everything to work properly with VST's in Reason right out of the gate. There are going to be some bumps in the road.

Have you ever considered that a setting in your OS and/or BIOS could be the underlying problem? IIRC, you said you overclocked your system, and I thought overclocking wasnt a thing since we started having multi-core processors?

Have you considered that maybe there's an issue with Bazille that went unnoticed until now, that let it run fine on older DAW's but it causing a hiccup in Reason? I'm a bit surprised that Props didn't decide that all VST's in Reason needed to be newer VST3, eschewing some older legacy VST's. Maybe they did and anything older than VST 2.x and older won't work as well? Who knows?

I think it's a mistake to come out with guns blazing, pointing fingers at Props FIRST ATTEMPT at using VST's. Give them some time to work it out.

I think you got me wrong. And i agree it is a mistake to guns, and that. I am the one (see my previous threads) trying to calm down people which reported VST issues. I also said (i apologize if i wasn't being clear) that my report here is so Dev can notice it.

I considered literally every point you mentioned.

Let me explain. I am having overclocked system because i do 3D rendering as my day job. This allow me to make job faster. It may not be a thing for DAW people but for content creators it is a thing. More CPU, less time rendering - more job done. Plus having extra CPU power from overclocking can only benefit in DAW applications (if system is stable).And trust me i know my way in BIOS. I would not use nonstable system because i can not avoid crashes under rendering (we are talking here about CPU being tasked 100% sometimes for 48hours++ if i am rendering animation-trust me my system is stable)

I want to point out that it can not be pure coincidence that 4 majow and different DAW applications all behave superior and 100% stable (still talking about performance count) like every other app in my configuration while Reason is pretty inferior (we are talking about VST performance here - imo Reason is quite superior to some apps mentioned here).

I am doing this for last 15 years. To me it is not likely at all that all applications runs super slick, even similar sister ones (talking about 4 different DAW) while one behave inferior. Sorry to me this is looking like one which behave strangely is one which need to be "fixed".

I do get software development and for what is worth i completely understand this is their first (now second) upgrade. I expect this to be improved over time i just want to talk about it so it doesn't get unnoticed. I hope this is not any problem with you?

They said they improved it i am reporting issue is still same. No harm done.

I was actually curious that maybe Bazille have unnoticed bug but this is highly unlikely given the company pedigree plus other plugins have similar issues. Fire up youtube you will see.

At this pint i don't think it's my system i truly believe issue is on their side. Now i am even more sure because when firing up Reason only effects and instruments in session i can have like completely insane instrument and FX count even at 96khz. So Reason is actually setup correctly. We are talking more then hundreds Reason only items in session. No problem. Few VST plugin. Problem.


Cheers matte and have a nice weekend.

[cyanit]

I´m new to Reason and although the included instruments are very good, I've got a nice VST database that id like to use.
For me none of my AIR Musictech synths work without causing a crash sooner or later.
These are:
- Hybrid 3
- Loom
- VacuumPro
- Velvet
- Xpand!2