Psytrance parties and girls

[ghettosynth]

So here you go, direct evidence of use on mailing lists in 2000, long before anyone thought of using EDM as a genre name and using it in the context as I describe.

OK, so no pre-2000 artist is to be labeled EDM then, glad we agree about that.

No, the term goes back at least to the mid 90s and was used retrospectively as an encompassing term for all electronic dance music.

I gave you the evidence that was easy to find which should demonstrate that A) I knew where to look, from which follows, B) I was there living it.

Seriously dude, you're just f**king wrong on this.

[chk071]

TBH, i never cared much about this label. It's like saying "Guitar music", when you describe pop or rock. It's such a non-telling terminology. Total BS.

Actually, nowadays, it describes something totally different than what the Wikipedia definition suggests. It describes some kind of WUB WUB BZ BZ BZ Riser to Downlifter (if that's what it's called), melody less, commercial, unimaginative music, which is neither Trance, nor House, nor Techno. I would say the term "EDM" is not only non-telling, but was never defined in any way, and people just use it nowadays to either describe something which can't be described otherweise, or use it as a bad term for something which is not what it used to be.

[Numanoid]

No, the term goes back at least to the mid 90s

Your logic escapes me, you just wrote:

"on mailing lists in 2000, long before anyone thought of using EDM as a genre name and using it"

Case closed. You can keep on trolling, but I win

[recursive one]

EDM is erectile dysfunction in men. Period. Some kinds of music do cause this condition but that's another story.

[ghettosynth]

Here's another post from the same archives which is a similar idiotic debate as what's going on here right now.

> I think whoever first used that term was thinking more about the
> purpose of the music. The intention of music which is classified as > "IDM/Braindance" was created more for the purpose of listening than your > standard da$
> provoking than your average etards music collection.

why not call it electronic listening music then? ELM vs. EDM. pretty
simple distinction.

> If i had to pick a name for the music i like i would use AEM...abstract
> electronic music.

then one naturally runs into problems with the word abstract.

> But i have to wholeheartedly disagree with Toms comment that
> the compositon of music considered to be "IDM" is no more complex than > your average house track.

i'm betting he didn't actually mean it like that. additionally you've
probably just bought into the "intelligent" pretension... IDM, what i'll
call good ELM ISN'T all that much more difficult to produce than good house,
good EDM if you will, from a technical standpoint.

> I could sit here and produce several quality techno, house, breaks,
> and 2-step (just throw some swing on breaks add a bassline you got > 2-step...woohoo)

it's really a shame that you haven't heard any really good 2step... surely
you haven't if you can simplify a genre as rich as the music that is being
produced now into this formula.

> a day. I could but i dont.&n! bsp; From my point of view there is little > challenge in that and I prefer to challenge myself.

why do you feel one is more inherently challenging than another?
here's a challenge: write two hit singles... one ELM, one EDM...

go ahead... try!

> Its not my problem if someone prefers mind numbing music, over
> stimulating music.

tom would DEFINITELY agree, as do i.

> Im sure this post will get the likes of Tom, and Frank all fired up and > headed off in overanalytical directions.

overanalytical?

how was your post not?

-frank

Note the reference to IDM which really started in the mid 90s or so and the acronym itself was most likely a mutation of EDM.

[ghettosynth]

No, the term goes back at least to the mid 90s

Your logic escapes me, you just wrote:

"on mailing lists in 2000, long before anyone thought of using EDM as a genre name and using it"

Case closed. You can keep on trolling, but I win

I don't know why I'm arguing with you, this seems to be beyond your intellectual ability. I showed you the earliest context that I could easily find to demonstrate that's how it was used. However, right there in that post the genre happy hard core is referred to as EDM, so you clearly aren't getting it. It's not about music released after any point in time. HHC was not prominent in 2001.

[chk071]

Ok, let's talk about "Easy Listening" music then.

[ghettosynth]

TBH, i never cared much about this label. It's like saying "Guitar music", when you describe pop or rock. It's such a non-telling terminology. Total BS.

You weren't there either then. It's pretty clear that it was useful in those days. Look at those conversations. BTW: It's ALL over that mailing list, go look for yourself. IT was a common turn of phrase.

The sfraves are also online and you can find references going back to 1998. I don't know where the term started or how it relates to IDM, per se. But I remember it's common use back in the day.

Prior to EDM the underground generally used the phrase "electronica" as an all encompassing term.

[ghettosynth]

Really, I find it hilarious how much trouble KVR has accepting facts given a mountain of evidence. EDM as a genre came into common use around 2012 or so, google trends tell you that. What is also true is that the umbrella term "electronic dance music" goes all the way back to 1993 in the SF raves mailing list which suggests that the use of the acronym is probably post IDM, so in the mid to late 90s.

They're online, look for yourself.

>With all this discontent over the music, I can't figure out *what* you
>all *want* to hear...

tweaky electronic dance music. stuff that sounds like a computer's
dreamstate.

[chk071]

tweaky electronic dance music. stuff that sounds like a computer's
dreamstate.

Awesome, now we all know what it is.

[ghettosynth]

Here's a conversation from 1996 that clearly demonstrates how the phrase "electronic dance music" was widely used. Note that disco is generally not considered electronic dance music.

At 01:11 AM 9/16/96 -0700, you wrote:
>hi,
>I've been told that all forms of dance music are considered forms of techno,
>e.g. that techno came first and house, acid, etc all evolved from techno and
>fall under that classification. What I'd like to see is a sort of family
>tree of all these forms of music.
>
>any help most appreciated,
>Bruce
>
Hey:

The following paragraphs are excerpts taken from my memory, from various
conversations I havve had with other musicians and DJ's:

Nobody really knows what genre of electronic dance music came 1st.
Basically, the areas that people tend to narrow it down to is Chicago and
Detroit. Detroit "invented" techno, but in Chicago, disco never died, and
became house. You can still hear elements of disco in a lot of music that
comes out of Chicago ("garage house" is a form of music that was basically
disco but was written by people with small electronic setups at home back in
the late 70's/early 80's and couldn't afford the big-budget disco
productions of the time). However, in Detroit the nu-beat sound (dance
music that spawned from industrial) was rapidly evelving, and at some
threshold became techno. Therefore it's hard to tell where it originated.
Germany and Belgium played a huge part in it's development as well, with
record labels such as Tekno Drome International and ZYX, as well as
Kraftwerk and Front 242.

[ghettosynth]

tweaky electronic dance music. stuff that sounds like a computer's
dreamstate.

Awesome, now we all know what it is.

You know that you're taking that out of context, right? That's just the answer to a question about what some particular group wanted to hear, it is not a definition of electronic dance music.

[chk071]

I know. Still, he/she seems to describe what EDM means to him/her.

Anyway. I have a feeling what "EDM" stands for these days. It's still a non-telling shit term, sorry.

[ghettosynth]

And back to the original topic, again from 1998:

As opposed to acid techno crap?
Here is some info. "Goa music" is a poor term. It essientially refers to
electronic dance music that was played exclusivly at Goa beach parties
(over many years). There were several types of music that developed from
this (it really started by taking cheezy euro dance tunes and removing
the vocal tracks [the source of most of the cheeze] as the electronic
beats were kewel). One form was Psychedelic Trance. That 150 to 155 BPM
stuff that threatened to put your head up the black hole of the
universe. Great Stuff!!
A lot of folks refer to Psychedelic Trance as Goa music but...


> out of a bad sound system

? I've never been to a Psychedelic Trance party with a *bad* sound
system.

> with 400 unwashed
>patchoulli scented

Better than 400 slobs smoking cigarettes anyway.

Like I said, this has been around for a while, psytrance is a form of EDM if you use the term as it's been used for decades and people were arguing about genres almost daily back then. If you were there, then you remember the use of EDM and "Electronic Dance Music" as I describe, if you don't remember that then you're fronting and you weren't there.

[ghettosynth]

I know. Still, he/she seems to describe what EDM means to him/her.

Not at all, you are misreading it. It's like asking, "what do you want to hear" and the response is "progressive rock music." It doesn't at all mean that rock music is progressive, "tweaky" was just an adjective for the generic term "electronic dance music."

My god, is this REALLY that hard to understand?