DAW Propaganda.....is it really a psychological affliction?

[CTStump]

These are tools used to make art, used by artists.

These are tools ... YES

Cars are tools too to get you from A to B, but people are still passionate about their car is better than others

SImilar thing with the word "perfect DAW". This is highly subjective, because a DAW can only be perfect for a specific person with a specific need and workflow. That same DAW is completely "imperfect for a different person with different need

That's assuming everyone has a maserati computer rig which needs to be factored in the equation also. Can't see how anyone can believe that software is going to work in every setup the same.

Kind of like trying to install an 8 cylinder Dodge hemi in a kiddie car it may be posible but I wouldn't test drive it. That scenario is extreme but even in a minor sense software cannot and no way work the same with every rig no matter how well it's built.

Look at that common sense rears it's head...again.

[THE INTRANCER]

I've seen many fanboi's, on based daw based forums, they are typically the worst, unable to interpret constructive criticism of a product they own, whether they actually use it or not, even to a religious protective level. Similar minded people form within these groups to form a 'sect', some come even off as threatening, sending nasty PM's to try and scare you away from commenting on what they post.

Being an individual, speaking out honestly about a product and how it's delivered or even understood is all part of that loyalty defense mentality fanboi's take their 3 pronged forks out on. It's truly sad, because it's innovators who are able to accept criticism and use it to their advantage are not allowed to hear that, which prevents innovations to develop and improve, because there's a section of a community that are hell bent on preventing that because of prejudice or envy of anothers ability to convey that for the benefit for all.

Studio One forums cough

[CTStump]

I've seen many fanboi's, on based daw based forums, they are typically the worst, unable to interpret constructive criticism of a product they own, whether they actually use it or not, even to a religious protective level. Similar minded people form within these groups to form a 'sect', some come even off as threatening, sending nasty PM's to try and scare you away from commenting on what they post.

Being an individual, speaking out honestly about a product and how it's delivered or even understood is all part of that loyalty defense mentality. It's truly sad, because it's innovators who are able to accept criticism and use it to their advantage are not allowed to hear that, which prevents innovations to develop and improve, because there's a section of a community that are hell bent on preventing that because of prejudice or envy of anothers ability to convey that for the benefit for all.

Studio One forums cough

Yeah the EDM crowd sometimes don't get the understanding they deserve on that forum. Presonus is a hardware manufacturer so their priorities tend more to the recording side of their DAW. If they did not rest on that laurel and apply some of the FRs submited by the MIDI Composer's the MIDI side would be further ahead now in my opinion. But anything in some minds is bloat when it comes to FR they think are unnecessary. Once again a subjective obstacle.

Can't really blame them for the forum though because its community based by members which of course are biased to that product.


I'll be waiting to be called a fanboi for that reply.

[ShawnG]

I've seen many fanboi's, on based daw based forums, they are typically the worst, unable to interpret constructive criticism of a product they own, whether they actually use it or not, even to a religious protective level. Similar minded people form within these groups to form a 'sect', some come even off as threatening, sending nasty PM's to try and scare you away from commenting on what they post.

Being an individual, speaking out honestly about a product and how it's delivered or even understood is all part of that loyalty defense mentality fanboi's take their 3 pronged forks out on. It's truly sad, because it's innovators who are able to accept criticism and use it to their advantage are not allowed to hear that, which prevents innovations to develop and improve, because there's a section of a community that are hell bent on preventing that because of prejudice or envy of anothers ability to convey that for the benefit for all.

Studio One forums cough

I don't really have a dog in the S1 fight, since I don't own it (yet, the crossgrade offer is pretty tempting) But I have found myself on this forum drawn to defend some of the DAWs that I use regularly. There seems to be a tone in your post of portraying dissenters as noble creatures working for the benefit of all, when in reality, much (not all) of anonymous criticism online is not constructive at all, but is merely disgruntled users or trolls crapping all over a product because of a perceived slight. even on the constructive criticism front there is an element of development politics at work. development resources are finite, so the adamant demand of features to be added to satisfy a critic's desires may in reality take away from development time devoted to improvements made in other areas of the software.

One thing that I take issue with in general, is the perceived need to have a single tool for a user's DAW requirements. I use several, on the "horses for courses" principle. Trying to find the single perfect DAW is going to be an exercise in frustration by necessity. best to have a few options and exploit them for their strong points rather than to continually bang your head against the wall waiting for your "one" to eventually fill your needs. That fight ends with a market full of bland "me-too" products, and I am glad there are still valid choices to be made, there's nothing wrong with a DAW maker deciding what their product is, and what it isn't.

[THE INTRANCER]

I've seen many fanboi's, on based daw based forums, they are typically the worst, unable to interpret constructive criticism of a product they own, whether they actually use it or not, even to a religious protective level. Similar minded people form within these groups to form a 'sect', some come even off as threatening, sending nasty PM's to try and scare you away from commenting on what they post.

Being an individual, speaking out honestly about a product and how it's delivered or even understood is all part of that loyalty defense mentality. It's truly sad, because it's innovators who are able to accept criticism and use it to their advantage are not allowed to hear that, which prevents innovations to develop and improve, because there's a section of a community that are hell bent on preventing that because of prejudice or envy of anothers ability to convey that for the benefit for all.

Studio One forums cough

Yeah the EDM crowd sometimes don't get the understanding they deserve on that forum. Presonus is a hardware manufacturer so their priorities tend more to the recording side of their DAW. If they did not rest on that laurel and apply some of the FRs submited by the MIDI Composer's the MIDI side would be further ahead now in my opinion. But anything in some minds is bloat when it comes to FR they think are unnecessary. Once again a subjective obstacle.

Can't really blame them for the forum though because its community based by members which of course are biased to that product.


I'll be waiting to be called a fanboi for that reply.

Personally I do far more than just electronic music, more film production score really nowadays, but very I'm much aware of those in that community that do. I wouldn't object to more midi tools if they were to come for Studio One, do I need them, would I use them is another question though, and it would probably be yes but very few with having external midi synthesizers, I'd imagine.

Owning a product doesn't define who you are as a person though, at least it shouldn't, and there's those who are evangelical about something they own and defend it to the hilt as almost as if they have been brainwashed, using it as tool to entwine others into their way of thinking. I've used other daws in the past 30 years, even back to the 80's where the acronym daw didn't exist. I'm an absolute atheist..a daw is my tool to do my job as a producer and have always bent over backwards to help those interested in that. Able to see how things can be improved, not how they can't. The Reason community was much more fragmented around 7 years ago, then it got gradually systematically worse with the type of closed minded people on it....I'm seeing the same thing on the Presonus forums...

I've been seriously wondering over the past month, if it's been worth the effort helping users on the Presonus forums over the past 3 years, I get little thanks for it these days, and the newbies to it all don't really listen to advice. And that Thank system they have on the forum is like some ego boosting device that mods reset, if you say something they don't like, hell I couldn't even disable it,, I didn't want it lol... This is like breeding a culture of control and censoring, like in a religious way. It's little wonder that Presonus the company want to distance themselves from the forum. What they need is an independent forum, not full of fanboi's and able to think objectively...there are a few there, but many choose to not even bother.

I moved from Reason 7 to Studio One 2 and later 3, I did this for one reason, because I wanted a better daw to produce music, first and foremost. I didn't like some of it, but I worked to make it better for myself. Forums can be time consuming pain in the ass...I think it's really time to go it alone and control my own destiny in more interesting and exciting ways in digital / media software design / music production. . The irony...is that I'm posting this on a forum, but the perfect place to let those who want to know whats happening know...onwards and upwards as they say.

[Kinh]

My question is how can anyone come up with a rational solution when emotion is more important than the facts when it comes to DAW's in an envoirment created by the loss of their favorite platform.

I dont know what the hell your on about. What does emotion got to do with anything? If their daw is no longer available then they look for another, how does emotion fit into the equation?

[Michael L]

^^^ Ha ha ha!! I remember your fanatically emotional posts about Ableton: Ableton is the future; the world revolves around Ableton; soon all shall bow down to Ableton and to Kinh its Keymaster, or be destroyyyyyd!

[melomood]

I've been perusing the Sonar forum since the announcement of it's demise and have come to the conclusion that the mind matters way more than facts about which DAW will replace their beloved and well featured Sonar.

I mean statements like "This doesn't sound the same" or "GUI is a mess" or the famous " it's a cnvoluted mess" or my favorite "it's just not mature enough". Although some of it may merit that subjective of opinion it mainly just that, subjective opinion.

My question is how can anyone come up with a rational solution when emotion is more important than the facts when it comes to DAW's in an envoirment created by the loss of their favorite platform.

I guess this kinda stupid to ask but is it more an sports analogy like my team is better than your team even if my team has lost mentality more than what works for me may not work for you but it may be worth a try to find out.

Will the KVR Mentalist's please chime in or spank me for my ignorance

Are you insane calling them out like this?
Let them have their fun here,lest they move on to something more damaging

[Aloysius]

I guess this kinda stupid to ask but ...

You have chosen the correct forum to ask such a deep psychological question.

However, you are attempting to apply logic to a situation which doesn't have any.

[LawrenceF]

Nothing new, it's just what (mostly) guys always do, argue over their toys. It starts in pre-school and continues on through high school and beyond. Cars, power tools, daws, whatever. It doesn't matter what the toy is, just choosing it necessitates defending the choice.

The difference is the level of it, some taking it to extremes, and that some guys grow out of it and some don't. It's not a coincidence - despite there being tons of female musicians - that most of the stupid daw debating is between men. Penile wagging.

The real irony is that likely 90% of them have never made a penny from music, it's just another version of saying you have a cooler lawn mower than your neighbor, but the expanse of the internet magnifies it all.

Nothing to see here but human nature.

Why daws seem to make it happen more? Because they're relatively inexpensive (and cracked) and almost anyone with a decent job can own and try all of them, and continually debate them, unlike BMW's and Ferrari's.

[Woodgardens]

When Propapanda and Promamanda get a son I wonder how they would name it.

[tooneba]

^^^ Ha ha ha!! I remember your fanatically emotional posts about Ableton: Ableton is the future; the world revolves around Ableton; soon all shall bow down to Ableton and to Kinh its Keymaster, or be destroyyyyyd!

lol he is the fruit of their marketing strategy.

[CTStump]

I guess this kinda stupid to ask but ...

You have chosen the correct forum to ask such a deep psychological question.

However, you are attempting to apply logic to a situation which doesn't have any.

Yup. Which is the white elephant in the room.

I know it may never change but if you drive by an accident wouldn't you look? I started this thread here as a means for discussion really not to change minds or additudes. I guess we should calmly go by and blow it off it's just the interwebz, nothing to see here.

It's really a chat about goings on and observations....and some insightful replies from a nuetral forum.

KVR is a little contentious at times but that means the opinion is not biased towards one think. I enjoy opinion mine or anyone elses as long as they are open minded enough to not resort to CAPs.

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

When Propapanda and Promamanda get a son I wonder how they would name it.

Dave?

[LawrenceF]

Yup. Which is the white elephant in the room.

I know it may never change but if you drive by an accident wouldn't you look? I started this thread here as a means for discussion really not to change minds or additudes. I guess we should calmly go by and blow it off it's just the interwebz, nothing to see here.

Exactly. It has nothing to do with any particular product or company, it's human nature, the idea that "...if someone doesn't like the choice I made I must argue and prove them wrong."

Granted, KVR does appear one of the few places where it never even occurs to some people that they may all right, that when Joe says X sucks for him, he's telling the truth, and when Jim says X works great for him, he's also telling the truth... that those things are not mutally exclusive.

The problem appears to be people who simply can't accept the idea that their personal reality is not a universal reality, so they spend years arguing about it. If Cubase sucks for me it must suck for everybody (I am the standard for the entire world after all ) and I will beat that dead horse for five years.

One of the more humorous aspects is reading... "I moved to X and never looked back!!!"... and then the person writing five paragraphs about why Y product sucked for them, which is quite literally looking back.