Is anyone feeling Punk-Hop?

[Lady J]

I agree with Tony. The more people and vibes involved with rock music the better. People have been predicting its demise for year for good reason.

[TVD]

Let people of color show you how to save it.

WTF?

Forever,




Kim.

That was a pretty funky statement wasn't it?

So modern rock is doomed without the blacks huh? And whites need to stop yelling so much because they can't sing. I'll keep that in mind.

Yes...too funky for primetime. You're right.

Modern rock is doomed without blacks & Hip-Hop albums can't sell millions of copies without whites.

Let break even a lot better than this.

[HanafiH]

heh, most people like some 'non-radical music' Liam from the Prodigy likes Gloria Estefan. I like Enrico Iglesias and Christina Aguilera.

My secret vice is a collection of Prince Far I. I met a black girl in Derby once who asked what black musicians I liked. Prince Far I says I with great reverence. Yeah, Purple Rain was great says she.

[crazed one]

Yes...too funky for primetime. You're right.

Modern rock is doomed without blacks & Hip-Hop albums can't sell millions of copies without whites.

Let break even a lot better than this.

I just want to know how you can prove such a statement. Basically you are saying rock music is dead unless black people are around and white people are only around to buy the stuff.

[Lady J]

Yes...too funky for primetime. You're right.

Modern rock is doomed without blacks & Hip-Hop albums can't sell millions of copies without whites.

Let break even a lot better than this.

I just want to know how you can prove such a statement. Basically you are saying rock music is dead unless black people are around and white people are only around to buy the stuff.

What he is stating is socio-economic reality in the States and elsewhere.. For the last 25 years rock has been on a decline both in terms of sales and some would argue quality (though how you would quantify the latter is dubious at best).

Rock has been loosing market share in the US to Hip Hop and RnB on one side and Country on the other since 1990. You will be hard pressed to find more than one rock station in any give US city and unless a tune is really big and crosses over you won't hear it on US Top 40 radio which is innundated with Hip Hop and RnB. While the amount of black buyers of the music has stayed relatively the same for 20 years the amount non-black, non-urban people who have bought it has skyrocketed.

On the other hand the reason for all this is that the majority of buyers of music, (ALL music not JUST Hip Hop and RnB) are white. Were it not for white suburbanites buying the music you would not see the million dollar videos, etc on MTV, BET, Much Music, VH1, etc. Modern day Hip Hop owes as much to white dollars as 'black sounds'. Also the country is so mixed anyway that Hip Hop and RnB is like the shared music of almost anyone who resides in an urban or large suburban area. That it has produced subgenres like Hick Hop shows that it has made inroads into even the most isolated rural areas of America: Appalachia (Kentucky, West Virgina, Tennesee, Alabama, etc)

So for rock to steal back some marketshare it only makes sense to crossover. The whole country is mixed so why are almost all rock bands still predominately white when we have more than a handful of white rappers?

See? Its cause the music has lost its appeal even amongst the 18-25 white male demographic record execs look at when signing rock acts. They tried to counter this in the late 90s by boosting the whole "Emo" thing to bring in young white girls but that too has fallen flat. They also tried to boost rock bands with DJS and rappers (almost all exclusively white), but other than Limp Bizcuit and Linkin Park most of these have just fallen by the wayside.

Meanwhile bands like N.E.R.D, Outkast, Spymob, The Roots, Cyprus Hill, etc are blowing up. Even lesser known acts like Phunk Junkiez are touring Australia.


People of colour my age and younger listen to other music than Hip Hop and RnB. Most of us bought a lot of other music. Many of us have friends of different colours and cultures and so Hip Hop and RnB is absorbing those flavours just as it did with other music previously. Also, many of us actually liked a lot of rock but it just needed more 'flava' so Punk Hop was born.

  

[crazed one]

Yes I can understand what you guys are talking about, it's just the way that Tony had put it into words. I was just busting Tony's chops is all.

[TVD]

Yes...too funky for primetime. You're right.

Modern rock is doomed without blacks & Hip-Hop albums can't sell millions of copies without whites.

Let break even a lot better than this.

I just want to know how you can prove such a statement. Basically you are saying rock music is dead unless black people are around and white people are only around to buy the stuff.

Please re-read my exact quote, especially where I said Hip-Hop (not rock) can't sell millions of copies without white.

But all of that aside, Lady J is speaking the truth with better choice of words.

[TVD]

Yes I can understand what you guys are talking about, it's just the way that Tony had put it into words. I was just busting Tony's chops is all.

By the way, I don't eat pork.

[crazed one]

great sense of humor! sorry if I misunderstood you



I wish people would get into the old school thrash metal again. I can always wish can't I?

[Lunch Money]

Rock has been on the decline for 25 years? Hmmm... let's try a bit of math for a second and see what we come up with--

So it's been on the decline since 1980. Considering 'modern' rock (don't want to get in on the history of rock, it's a slippery slope that can only lead back hundreds of years) can be considered to have started in the late-50's, that's about... 25 years....

So it's been in decline for about half the time that it's been in existence. Not bad, as far as a track record goes. Plus, have you noticed the resurgance of rock lately? It hasn't gone away and is now in fact on an upswing.

Anyhow, that's another thread-- back to Punk-Hop.

I say that no matter what name someone (be it the artist or the label or (more often) the media) puts on music, if it's got a fresh sound, it's great. I'm sure most of us would agree with that. So while it may be annoying to hear terms like "Punk-Hop" and get a bit of a diatribe from Lady J, who seems intent on informing us of every underground movement out there (thanks for that, though I'm sure I sound snarky!), I can imagine that punk sensibility with Hip-Hop beats would sound great, done with artistry rather than gimmickery.

Greg

[crazed one]

On a decline for the last 25 years though? What about that period from 1980 to about 91?

All I remember is van halen, motley crew, poison, white snake, etc. Those groups were feckin huge! I would have to say that was not a time in decline in rock.

hehe, that reminds of when NWA was getting notoriety. Man o man, when my mother first heard that shit......

[ouroboros]

All I'm saying is let us all make rock fun again. Let make rock into a better image. I wanna rock happy and not angry, depress, or sad all the damn time.

And yes, let people of color (OutKast, The Neptunes, Prince, etc.) help you more.

I agree with said statements. I love happy rock. No more slash-your-wrist solipsistic whining! (Of course, that was a lot of what I listened to in highschool).

If your going to complain, complain like James Brown!

Of course, I'm hopelessly addicted to Motown stuff.

anyway, it's late and I am drifting off topic, but I dig the direction of the posts.[/quote]

[Lady J]

On a decline for the last 25 years though? What about that period from 1980 to about 91?

All I remember is van halen, motley crew, poison, white snake, etc. Those groups were feckin huge! I would have to say that was not a time in decline in rock.

hehe, that reminds of when NWA was getting notoriety. Man o man, when my mother first heard that shit......

There was a 'golden age' of rock/metal

from about 1980-1988. In that age there were two eras

The post disco era, 1980-1985 where it was all just a testosterone fueled reclaimation of straight white male american culture.

and

The Guitar God era, 1984-1988 where the amazing technical skills and pyrotechnics of many of these bands guitarists were as much responsible for the popularity as the actual songwriting.

Older people on this board like Sleek will tell you most of that stuff was lightweight compared to 70s bands like Deep Purple, Rainbow and Black Sabbath. In otherwords, for ROCK heads it started going downhill after maybe the first couple Van Halen albums but for everyone else including the beancounters at labels it was just getting rolling into its most lucrative period. Musically many people like Sleek will disagree that say, Dokken could hold a candle to Alice Cooper, UFO or MSG.

So musically it has been in decline for about 25 years and sales wise it has been in decline for maybe the last 20. (Sales during the 1985-1988 period had started to level off. Then by 1990 hair metal was over and even old AOR bands like Journey, Foreigner, and Jefferson Starship were having problems selling records.

Nevertheless you still had the Rolling Stones and Aerosmith kept going. And Metallica by its fandom was mostly insulated from the rise of Grunge/Hip Hop/Rave.

[crazed one]

@ Lady J

I hear what you are saying. I don't think that it was musically in decline however. It was just simple music that was easy to listen to. If that's the way you see the music of that time then maybe you would extend the same attitude to a lot of the stuff they play on the r&b stations these days. Either way I am not trying to start a fight, I'm just obviously standing up for an era of music that a lot of people seem to talk down on.

Also, no offense, but just because someone like Sleek possibly doesn't like 80's over the 70's rock doesn't instantly give validity to your theory. Sales figures don't mean the music is good or bad. I'm sure you've seen more than a few bands/groups sell millions and still be shit music and vice versa.

Like I said no offense, it just seems that some of your ideas and theories aren't developed in a complete sense- almost like you are just telling me that is the way it is when you can tell that I may be in diagreement. (EDIT: disagreement that is)

Hope I don't sound rude.

[Lunch Money]

Pretty half-baked...

Grunge didn't count as a strong movement in rock? Tell that to Pearl Jam and the surviving members of Nirvana....

I can't remember ANY period of time in my life where there wasn't at least SOME viable rock music being made.

You and your peeps may have experienced a period of boredom with rock music (or not... I dunno...), but trust me, it's still been around for the rest of us.

Greg