What's your preferred upgrade scheme?

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jamcat wrote: Wed Jun 10, 2020 4:13 amWhat has been you experience with Catalina?
None. At work we are still a couple of versions behind so that we don't have to deal with that shit. But every developer's site I've visited in the last couple of years has had to put up messages and announcements about when their products will be ready to support it. Retailers providing lists of Catalina-compatible software, any number of threads here, etc., etc. You can't just drop support for 32 bit applications like that, it's f**king ridiculous.

Now they are going to move to ARM, then you'll really find out how f**ked you are. Windows has 90% market share and they can't get anyone to write/compile applications for ARM, what hope does Apple have with only a 10% share? This time next year a new Mac will only be able to run phone apps.
I run both OSX and Windows and I haven't had a single issue with Catalina. Some developers complain, which is understandable, but as an end user my experience has been 100% positive.
So you never had any 32 bit software? You know, something you've relied on for years that has never let you down? Because I have to tell you, moving all my musical stuff from 32 bit to 64 bit has been far and away the biggest pain in my arse of all time. I've been working on it for nearly three years and I'm still not even close to the point where I could just walk away from 32 bit. And to get where I am now has cost me thousands of dollars, involved massive compromises and yet, for all that, I am yet to see any real benefit beyond having access to a handful of plugins that are 64 bit only.
Every time Windows 10 updates, it breaks my wifi, among other things. I will go days where Windows says "Connected, No Internet Access" and my computer has no IP address on the network. Then it will suddenly start working again until I reboot. This happens on two different computers.
Sounds like a problem with your modem, not your computers. I get that every second day since I bought a new modem and restarting the modem fixes it every time. And to be clear, my Android phone can't get to the internet when it happens, either.
So I am on Mac most of the time now because as they say, "It just works." I spend my time making music and getting my work done instead of trying to fix Windows.
Just as long as you don't need to use Apple's own Animation codec or any 32 bit software "it just works" but for the rest of us, it's a steaming pile of shit.
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BONES wrote: Wed Jun 10, 2020 5:28 am
jamcat wrote: Wed Jun 10, 2020 4:13 amEvery time Windows 10 updates, it breaks my wifi, among other things. I will go days where Windows says "Connected, No Internet Access" and my computer has no IP address on the network. Then it will suddenly start working again until I reboot. This happens on two different computers.
Sounds like a problem with your modem, not your computers. I get that every second day since I bought a new modem and restarting the modem fixes it every time. And to be clear, my Android phone can't get to the internet when it happens, either.
It's not. It has happened on three totally different, totally separate wifi networks. I can confirm at least 2 of those modems are different brands, too. I thought maybe it was an issue with the Broadcom wifi cards, but I still experienced it when I plugged an ethernet cable directly into my DAW's ASUS motherboard at home. And since I've never once hap a problem with my iPhone or iPad while this was happening, and my MacBook always works totally fine in OSX but not when booted into Windows, it really looks to be Windows is the source. The problem with Windows is it tries to be all things to all things. Apple's tightly controlled closed system means everything in it is going to work. Except for 32-bit software
BONES wrote: Wed Jun 10, 2020 5:28 am So you never had any 32 bit software? You know, something you've relied on for years that has never let you down? Because I have to tell you, moving all my musical stuff from 32 bit to 64 bit has been far and away the biggest pain in my arse of all time. I've been working on it for nearly three years and I'm still not even close to the point where I could just walk away from 32 bit.
Only 3 years? I started transitioning to 64-bit back when Windows Vista came out. I was using a 64-bit DAW by 2010 (Studio One 1.0, when I left Cubase.) I use very large orchestral libraries so 64-bit has been a necessity for a long time. I probably haven't touched anything 32-bit in a good 5 years. I have consciously avoided anything 32-bit for a decade because it was a dead letter even back then and the writing was on the wall. This day has been a long time coming.

Ironically, I'm trying to move away from samples completely to physical modeling now.
THIS MUSIC HAS BEEN MIXED TO BE PLAYED LOUD SO TURN IT UP

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Well... If you look over the long term, prices are not that different.

Cubase upgrades vary every year. One year it's 60 Euro, and the other year it's 100 Euro. That's a almost "locked down" pattern. The disadvantage is, that the longer you wait, the more expensive this upgrade becomes. Wait two years with upgrading and you pay 160 Euro, wait longer and it becomes more expensive.

Bitwig, at the other hand, can be more expensive if you renew your upgrades every year. However - It will not become more expensive to upgrade over time like Cubase does. If you wait two years or longer with the upgrade, you pay the same price as with Cubase. And If you wait longer than two years with upgrading, Bitwig upgrade stay's at the same price, while upgrading Cubase becomes more and more expensive. So - Over a longer time period Bitwig becomes cheaper to upgrade than Cubase.

At the end, if you upgrade both DAW's after a two year time frame, they are both equal in price.

Live can be cheaper if you take the time period in consideration. But even then the latest update made me not happy at all. While Suite users got lots of nice updates and upgrades, the "standard" users had to pay a big price for a few crumbs that where some left-overs from the "elite" Suite users. For me the upgrade price was not worth it at all, and that was one of the reasons I jumped to Bitwig (there where a lot more, so do not hold that against me).

There are other DAW's, but I do not use them very much, or at all. I have used FL-Studio for a short time, but it would not "click" with me at all. I am a "old" Reason user, so every once in a while over the years I buy the upgrade (If I have some left-over money). I am also a long-time Cakewalk Sonar user (And Project 5 user - The main reason why I like Bitwig), but I left it for Cubase that simply fits me a lot better.

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jamcat wrote: Wed Jun 10, 2020 4:13 am
BONES wrote: Wed Jun 10, 2020 2:19 am
jamcat wrote: Tue Jun 09, 2020 11:53 pmBut you pay for it in all the lost time spent fixing everything Microsoft breaks with each new weekly Windows update.
Except you don't. Only once since I joined the Insider Preview team in 2012 have I had a beta version that gave me any problems, and a fix was issued for that the same day. In any event, after the disaster that was Catalina, it is a sign of true desperation that you'd try that one on. Everything that ran on my computer when I had Windows XP still runs on my computer today under Windows 10. All the software and all the peripherals. OTOH, you'll be lucky if software you bought last year will still work at the next macOS upgrade, let alone what Apple might decide to remove from the OS itself.
What has been you experience with Catalina?

I run both OSX and Windows and I haven't had a single issue with Catalina. Some developers complain, which is understandable, but as an end user my experience has been 100% positive.

Do you have a different firsthand experience to share? Or are you just repeating stuff you've read because you don't actually know?

Every time Windows 10 updates, it breaks my wifi, among other things. I will go days where Windows says "Connected, No Internet Access" and my computer has no IP address on the network. Then it will suddenly start working again until I reboot. This happens on two different computers. One of them is my MacBook with Bootcamp, and there is no problem connecting when I'm in OSX. The other is my Windows DAW. I had them working consistently for a while by using IPv6 through 6to4 Tunnel, and then a Windows Update came along and broke it all again.

It seems Microsoft broke IPv4 a while ago and it hasn't worked correctly since. This caused havoc with my Studio One plugin scanner not being able to update my plugins list (apparently it works through network drivers as of Studio One 4) and I also can't use Studio One RC on Windows, but it works fine on Mac. There was access to IPv4 configuration through Network Connections once that let you disable IPv4 Checksum Off Load, which supposedly fixes the issue, but Microsoft arbitrarily removed that because they always remove options that unbreak Windows. (Remember when they ripped out all of the code for the Start Button because people wanted it and figured out how to bring it back in Windows 8?)

So I am on Mac most of the time now because as they say, "It just works." I spend my time making music and getting my work done instead of trying to fix Windows.
Sounds like you have some serious issues with your router or other network equipment, especially if it happens with multiple computers. I think large corporations with thousands of computers would have noticed if IPv4 suddenly stopped working. It's kind of a common thing to use IPv4 in networks.
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Anything that is not subscription.

I'm fine with a reasonable priced update very year. Or with a bit more expensive update every couple of years.

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FL Studio lifetime updates for the DAW with the possibility to decide for yourself, if you want to buy additional plugins, presets and sounds from them or not. And that concept works, because I bought all from them.
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I quite like the upgrade scheme of Reason. Upgrades any previous version of Reason to Reason 11 (current) is with a fixed price. Not like Cubase and if you are a Fanboy then you need to chase their upgrade other wise you have to pay the upgrade fee quite high if you are still using version N-2, N-3 etc ...

I bought Bigwig last Dec and if you think Bitwig is your primary DAW in next 2-3 years then its time to buy their upgrade plan. However, I will be buying it while it on sales (like Cyber Monday?). I am not sure "what if" my upgrade plan just ended last week and I still could upgrade to version 3.2. But version 3.2.1 has quite a number of bug fix which just released this week... :lol:

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cowby wrote: Fri Jun 12, 2020 1:23 am I quite like the upgrade scheme of Reason. Upgrades any previous version of Reason to Reason 11 (current) is with a fixed price. Not like Cubase and if you are a Fanboy then you need to chase their upgrade other wise you have to pay the upgrade fee quite high if you are still using version N-2, N-3 etc ...

I bought Bigwig last Dec and if you think Bitwig is your primary DAW in next 2-3 years then its time to buy their upgrade plan. However, I will be buying it while it on sales (like Cyber Monday?). I am not sure "what if" my upgrade plan just ended last week and I still could upgrade to version 3.2. But version 3.2.1 has quite a number of bug fix which just released this week... :lol:
If you have 3.2, then you don't have to pay for any 3.2.x updates

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AdvancedFollower wrote: Wed Jun 10, 2020 10:37 am Sounds like you have some serious issues with your router or other network equipment, especially if it happens with multiple computers. I think large corporations with thousands of computers would have noticed if IPv4 suddenly stopped working. It's kind of a common thing to use IPv4 in networks.
Except that it's not just multiple (Windows) computers, it's also multiple networks in multiple locations.

And also the Windows 10 problems with wifi adapters are well known, widely documented, and acknowledged by Microsoft, and have been going on for years and continues to this day.

Seriously, come on people, who are you trying to fool? Microsoft is known for breaking Windows every time they "update" it.

There are reports like these after every Windows 10 update, with warnings not to install it and promises for fixes that never come or never work.

TechRepublc: Wi-Fi and Bluetooth not working after Windows 10 May 2019 Update (May 2019)

Appuals: Intel And Broadcom WiFi Adapters Not Working On Windows 10 1903, Acknowledges Microsoft And Promises Fix In Next Update (September 2019)
THIS MUSIC HAS BEEN MIXED TO BE PLAYED LOUD SO TURN IT UP

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So what are you trying to prove in this topic?
  • Auto-update can mess up your system? - Yes everyone knows.
  • You forgot to turn it off on your DAW - I understand but that's your fault.
  • It's not explicitly provided by MS how to turn it off. - It should be more simple.
  • MS autoupdate destroyed PC and other companies are no match for them. - No.

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BONES wrote: Wed Jun 10, 2020 5:28 am None. At work we are still a couple of versions behind so that we don't have to deal with that shit. But every developer's site I've visited in the last couple of years has had to put up messages and announcements about when their products will be ready to support it. Retailers providing lists of Catalina-compatible software, any number of threads here, etc., etc. You can't just drop support for 32 bit applications like that, it's f**king ridiculous.
As an end user, it has been no problem at all... I always wait a few months after a new Apple OS comes out and then whatever issues there are have been settled. Following that approach is always a smooth and trouble free upgrade.

Fine with me they dropped 32 bit applications... I haven't used any in a few years anyway.

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free for bug fixes/minor improvements , paid for major improvements/features

no subscriptions, no annual fees

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cowby wrote: Fri Jun 12, 2020 1:23 amI bought Bigwig last Dec and if you think Bitwig is your primary DAW in next 2-3 years then its time to buy their upgrade plan. However, I will be buying it while it on sales (like Cyber Monday?). I am not sure "what if" my upgrade plan just ended last week and I still could upgrade to version 3.2. But version 3.2.1 has quite a number of bug fix which just released this week... :lol:
If you were eligible for 3.2, then you get 3.2.x still for free, even if there's no active upgrade plan. Lastly, right now Bitwig's upgrade plans are the cheapest they've ever been ($109.19 with 'group' code at checkout) so you should get it now and wait with activating it - which starts the 12 months period - until v3.3 is released or later.
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tooneba wrote: Fri Jun 12, 2020 4:00 am So what are you trying to prove in this topic?
  • Auto-update can mess up your system? - Yes everyone knows.
  • You forgot to turn it off on your DAW - I understand but that's your fault.
  • It's not explicitly provided by MS how to turn it off. - It should be more simple.
  • MS autoupdate destroyed PC and other companies are no match for them. - No.
So your argument is it's my fault for installing Windows.
Well no shit. That's why I've ditched it for Mac.
Problem solved!
THIS MUSIC HAS BEEN MIXED TO BE PLAYED LOUD SO TURN IT UP

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One that supports an OS more than 2 years old.
Cubase only supports Mojave on and that made me pause on upgrading the pc to 10.5.
I don't get it and though I could carry on with my pc I like the same shit being on both so will keep what I have and be done with Steinberg.

*edit*
Oh I see Windows 10 (Version 1809) which was a cluster. Should've resisted at iLok...

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