KVR Audio

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Wed Nov 04, 2020 4:22 pm

Teksonik wrote: Wed Nov 04, 2020 3:50 pm It says spread so.......

It doesn't say stereo spread though.

dune_rave · Post by **dune_rave** » Wed Nov 04, 2020 4:59 pm

great unexpected news! however i'm still exploring icarus2, but when this will be released, i'm sure try the demo.

VELLTONE MUSIC · Post by **VELLTONE MUSIC** » Wed Nov 04, 2020 5:05 pm

is this Firebird II/Phoenix/Whatever u named, which was discussed in another topic or a new synth?
Is there a progress with Firebird II?

Markus Krause · Post by **Markus Krause** » Wed Nov 04, 2020 5:19 pm

FireBird 2.1 is available for free here: https://www.tone2.com/firebird2.html
It is not longer advertised, since the plugin is more than 16 years old and does not longer fullfil our quality-standard.

Teksonik · Post by **Teksonik** » Wed Nov 04, 2020 5:41 pm

chk071 wrote: Wed Nov 04, 2020 4:22 pm
Teksonik wrote: Wed Nov 04, 2020 3:50 pm It says spread so.......
It doesn't say stereo spread though.

It doesn't say Detune either and it doesn't say Stereo Spread in Dune 3 either but it is.....

I can't think of a plugin I own that doesn't have stereo spread for Unison and it would surprise me if Warlock didn't have stereo spread.

It's important to me as well as I use it or abuse it if you will quite frequently.

Guess we'll have to wait for Markus to answer your question.

Markus Krause · Post by **Markus Krause** » Wed Nov 04, 2020 5:50 pm

I initially started this project as a replacement for FireBird, since many people have asked for a replacement.
However it turned out as a lot more difficult as expected. It was not possible to keep a downward compatibility with FireBird with a reasonable effort. FireBird was simply too old. The VST framework was still 2.3, the GUI framwork was completely incompatible. VST 2.3 is completely different from VST 3.7 from the technical side. Porting it was a technical nightmare, since Steinberg does not care about an easy migration of old projects at all. Sadly the VST3 SDK is a real pain for developers. It's badly documented, heavily obfuscated and bloated. That's why it is still not properly established after 10 years and many customers still prefer VST 2.4. Releasing a plugin without VST 2.4 support was a no-go for me. Steinberg made VST 2.4 support with the latest SDKs as difficult as possible. So I had to do a lot of tinkering to make it work which wasted several months of development-time.
The sound-engine of FireBird did not longer fulfill my demands on quality. So everything had to be completely rewritten from the scratch. During development I had lots of new ideas which I wanted to implement. I did lots of experiments and found exciting possibilities to extend the concept. There was also lots of stuff that I did dislike and was removed, like the Reverb, the psycoacoutic processing, microtuning, the playback of the oscillators, many filters, many effects, the GUI, etc. In the end I had a completely different synth, which was not longer FireBird and also not longer compatible.

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Wed Nov 04, 2020 6:11 pm

Teksonik wrote: Wed Nov 04, 2020 5:41 pm
chk071 wrote: Wed Nov 04, 2020 4:22 pm
Teksonik wrote: Wed Nov 04, 2020 3:50 pm It says spread so.......
It doesn't say stereo spread though.
It doesn't say Detune either and it doesn't say Stereo Spread in Dune 3 either but it is.....

I can't think of a plugin I own that doesn't have stereo spread for Unison and it would surprise me if Warlock didn't have stereo spread.

It's important to me as well as I use it or abuse it if you will quite frequently.

Guess we'll have to wait for Markus to answer your question.

All the other Tone2 plugins don't have stereo spread, that's why I'm asking. They're either mono, or full stereo (spread).

Teksonik · Post by **Teksonik** » Wed Nov 04, 2020 6:21 pm

chk071 wrote: Wed Nov 04, 2020 6:11 pm All the other Tone2 plugins don't have stereo spread

Do any of them have a Spread knob ?

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Wed Nov 04, 2020 6:27 pm

Yep, Saurus does. It does have a pan parameter as well (spread is the detuning, pan is the stereo spread. Yes, nicely non-standard labels. Normally, it's detune and spread, for detuning and... stereo spread.

). It doesn't have unison on oscillator level though. It's a global unison.

Markus Krause · Post by **Markus Krause** » Wed Nov 04, 2020 6:29 pm

spread in Saurus = detune in the other synths

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Wed Nov 04, 2020 6:29 pm

Ok, so it's like I thought. Any chance you could implement stereo spread as well? Really, it's important. Spire, Dune, Massive X, plugin XY you name it, they all have it.

If it's "true stereo oscillators", I'd assume it's fairly easy to implement a stereo spread parameter which allows to adjust stereo width/position of unison voices in the panorama.

AnX · Post by **AnX** » Wed Nov 04, 2020 6:31 pm

Jopmanajop wrote: Wed Nov 04, 2020 11:19 am That's unexpected, you said there won't be any new synths from Tone2

looks to me like Firebird3, so an updated synth (even tho it's been re written)

edit: 3, not 2

Teksonik · Post by **Teksonik** » Wed Nov 04, 2020 6:35 pm

chk071 wrote: Wed Nov 04, 2020 6:29 pm Ok, so it's like I thought. Any chance you could implement stereo spread as well? Really, it's important. Spire, Dune, Massive X, plugin XY you name it, they all have it.

I can't think of any plugin I own that doesn't have stereo spread. Even The Legend has it.....

Oh well I'll wait for the demo to make any judgements but no stereo spread will definitely weigh on my decision to purchase or not.

Markus Krause · Post by **Markus Krause** » Wed Nov 04, 2020 6:40 pm

This feature is not important. Reason: Unlike the other synth's hypersaws the hypersaws in the Tone2 synths are 100% mono-compatible. You simply don't have to care about it. The mix 'just works'.
Please note that I do Hypersaws differently than the other companies. The competing companies just use a random phase on note-on. This can lead to mono-mixdown problems and huge variations in the amplitude. The phases of the Tone2 synths are automatically set in a way that the signal is always mono-compatible. I wrote a special statistical software and developed an algorithm for handling this. The Tone2 synths come with an smart algorithm which handels phase initialisation for the layered oscillators.
Please check it out for yourself and do A/B comparisons with the competitors. You will notice that our stuff is mono compatible and does not suffer from huge amplitude changes of the signal.
There is no need for this feature since it 'just works' for every mix with the Tone2 synths.

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Wed Nov 04, 2020 6:45 pm

Markus Krause wrote: Wed Nov 04, 2020 6:40 pm This feature is not important. Reason: Unlike the other synth's hypersaws the hypersaws in the Tone2 synths are 100% mono-compatible. You simply don't have to care about it. The mix 'just works'.
Please note that I do Hypersaws differently than the other companies. The competing companies just use a random phase on note-on. This can lead to mono-mixdown problems and huge variations in the amplitude. The phases of the Tone2 synths are automatically set in a way that the signal is always mono-compatible. I wrote a special statistical software and developed an algorithm for handling this. The Tone2 synths come with an smart algorithm which handels phase initialisation for the layered oscillators.

Just like Sylenth1 does (it doesn't phase at all when using unison), and it still has stereo spread, and is probably the most widely used synths for supersaws and such.

Well... it's your synth. I just say that those are things which are widely adopted by other developers, and, there's always stuff like that I notice on your synths, which put me off from buying in the end. I don't think I'll buy a synth without stereo spread control for the oscillators, if they are stereo. That's a missed opportunity. Stereo spread control is crucial for me, nothing more nothing less.

Tone2 Warlock (synthesizer) - available now!