KVR Audio

v1o · Post by **v1o** » Wed Dec 30, 2020 3:06 am

Ok I had a listen. Sounds like a bug.

Funkybot's Evil Twin · Wed Dec 30, 2020 3:16 am

v1o wrote: Wed Dec 30, 2020 3:06 am Ok I had a listen. Sounds like a bug.

Agree. Something bad happening there. It’s on their Juno software instrument too (the chorus) so it’s not just the standalone chorus.

foosnark · Post by **foosnark** » Wed Dec 30, 2020 3:19 pm

BBDs are analog, not digital. Each stage is capacitor-based and holds a voltage level; there are no bits. A 256 stage BBD is 256 analog sample-and-holds in series.

But as Wikipedia says, they are "discrete in the time domain" -- as in, they are clocked, sampling values at each clock tick rather than continuously. That means it's subject to aliasing above the Nyquist frequency.

If you have a BBD delay pedal or rack unit where you can't hear aliasing, it's because there's a lowpass filter in front of the BBD chip. And if you don't hear the whine of the clock, it's because there's a lowpass filter after the BBD chip. In most hardware, the filters are aggressive enough to stop both aliasing and clock noise, and the BBD has a dark sound as a result.

In Eurorack and semi-modular recently it's not unusual to find BBDs with less aggressive filters or even none at all.

I don't know how the original Juno chorus was, or why Arturia chose the filter values they did. But it's not something horribly wrong with their algorithm, it's just a filter that's not filtering enough.

Torchlight · Post by **Torchlight** » Wed Dec 30, 2020 9:09 pm

Well, I just found out about this today when I happened to browse the Arturia YouTube channel. Too late to download it apparently. How exactly are we supposed to have found out about it? I didn't receive any email about it although I have bought many Arturia products, including some just a few weeks ago.

Local Man · Post by **Local Man** » Wed Dec 30, 2020 10:07 pm

Torchlight wrote: Wed Dec 30, 2020 9:09 pm Well, I just found out about this today when I happened to browse the Arturia YouTube channel. Too late to download it apparently. How exactly are we supposed to have found out about it? I didn't receive any email about it although I have bought many Arturia products, including some just a few weeks ago.

Visit the bedroom producers blog regularly or follow them on social media and you will never miss something like this again.

Local Man · Post by **Local Man** » Wed Dec 30, 2020 10:12 pm

I absolutely love this plugin. It makes any synth sound rich and alive. Honestly, I just use the default setting on chorus 1 and it instantly sounds nice.
It is a shame about the heavy aliasing. I assume that accounts for the high end raspiness that is the only part of the sound I don’t like. But in general I’m not throwing it on things with a ton of high end so it’s not really a big deal for me. Low pass it a bit and it is very nice. For me this thing is all about adding warmth and that typically means not a ton of high end anyway.

v1o · Post by **v1o** » Wed Dec 30, 2020 10:16 pm

Torchlight wrote: Wed Dec 30, 2020 9:09 pm Well, I just found out about this today when I happened to browse the Arturia YouTube channel. Too late to download it apparently. How exactly are we supposed to have found out about it? I didn't receive any email about it although I have bought many Arturia products, including some just a few weeks ago.

Check KVR once a week.

JerGoertz · Post by **JerGoertz** » Wed Dec 30, 2020 10:20 pm

v1o wrote: Wed Dec 30, 2020 10:16 pm
Torchlight wrote: Wed Dec 30, 2020 9:09 pm Well, I just found out about this today when I happened to browse the Arturia YouTube channel. Too late to download it apparently. How exactly are we supposed to have found out about it? I didn't receive any email about it although I have bought many Arturia products, including some just a few weeks ago.
Check KVR once a week.

Once an hour, if possible.

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Wed Dec 30, 2020 10:30 pm

Torchlight wrote: Wed Dec 30, 2020 9:09 pm Well, I just found out about this today when I happened to browse the Arturia YouTube channel. Too late to download it apparently. How exactly are we supposed to have found out about it? I didn't receive any email about it although I have bought many Arturia products, including some just a few weeks ago.

Make sure you subscribe to their newsletter.

dionenoid · Post by **dionenoid** » Wed Dec 30, 2020 11:30 pm

chk071 wrote: Wed Dec 30, 2020 10:30 pm
Torchlight wrote: Wed Dec 30, 2020 9:09 pm Well, I just found out about this today when I happened to browse the Arturia YouTube channel. Too late to download it apparently. How exactly are we supposed to have found out about it? I didn't receive any email about it although I have bought many Arturia products, including some just a few weeks ago.
Make sure you subscribe to their newsletter.

And check your spam

muki · Post by **muki** » Thu Dec 31, 2020 3:41 pm

v1o wrote: Wed Dec 30, 2020 2:36 am There's a BBD delay chip inside the Korg Minilogue, […]

huh?
i thought it is a PT2399, isn't it?
which afaik is a digital chip

https://www.electrosmash.com/pt2399-analysis

vurt · Post by **vurt** » Thu Dec 31, 2020 4:40 pm

muki wrote: Thu Dec 31, 2020 3:41 pm
v1o wrote: Wed Dec 30, 2020 2:36 am There's a BBD delay chip inside the Korg Minilogue, […]
huh?
i thought it is a PT2399, isn't it?
which afaik is a digital chip

https://www.electrosmash.com/pt2399-analysis

are you sure?
i love a pt delay, but it's a bit of a noisy, ratchety sound, can't see them being popular in your average sound design arsenal?

muki · Post by **muki** » Thu Dec 31, 2020 6:09 pm

vurt wrote: Thu Dec 31, 2020 4:40 pm are you sure?

well...
according to a user on GS...hmmm...

here's the thread - years ago..:
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/showpos ... count=5301

quoting:

Well upon investigation it appears that *surprise surprise* the delay chip in the circuit is the PT2399, renowned for being a noisy delay chip. I actually was placing bets it was the 2399 before i even opened up the synth. The problem is particularly if it is set up as per the data sheet, as the values are woefully out in the gain structure of the chip in the data sheet. And ...you guessed it, Korg has used values in the circuit taken directly from the data sheet like good little engineers. But thats the whole problem. So its not surprising that its noisy.

and some mod tipps:

For quite a while now there have been people playing with the values for this chip to create a a much quieter and efficient gain structure, for instance the cap between pins 9/10 should be 0.47uf instead of 0.08uf, increasing the internal gain (ie more feedback) and then output resistors should be increased to clamp down on the extra gain, thus taking down the noise floor with it considerably and equalizing the effect. The High pass filter is also being used from this chip's circuit.

vurt · Post by **vurt** » Thu Dec 31, 2020 6:19 pm

well, colour me shocked!
certainly seems an odd choice imo (despite my love of the pt delay).

v1o · Post by **v1o** » Fri Jan 01, 2021 2:05 am

muki wrote: Thu Dec 31, 2020 3:41 pm
v1o wrote: Wed Dec 30, 2020 2:36 am There's a BBD delay chip inside the Korg Minilogue, […]
huh?
i thought it is a PT2399, isn't it?
which afaik is a digital chip

https://www.electrosmash.com/pt2399-analysis

Great! Thanks for clearing that up. I was told it was a bbd by a rep in a store.

Arturia Jun-6 Chorus is free right now