Software vs Hardware Synth (better investment for beginners?)

[zerocrossing]

What's interesting to me is how many people on this forum bitch and moan about the horrid state of modern (overwhelmingly computer-based) music, but keep encouraging newcomers to stick with the same approach, rather than pick up an actual musical instrument. The (arguably) most original and best synth-based music came from the late 70s/80s by people who were using those "limited" hardware synths and doing far more original things with them than most modern "producers" with a virtually unlimited supply of software possibilities available to them. There's a lot to be gained from turning off your computer and working with an actual instrument. Just ask any musician.

Are you implying that hardware synths are instruments, but software synths are not? A lot of synths ARE basically computers...

What I'm saying, rather clearly IMO, is exactly what's written and it's in reply to those who insist that beginners should start with software. That's certainly one way to do it, but my point is simply that things were done just fine far before computer-based music took over and learning to play a musical instrument is a valuable skill that you won't learn by clicking a mouse all day. There's absolutely no reason that a beginner cannot or should not start with hardware. Like most hardware synth users, I use both, so I don't have a side in this stupid "hardware vs. software" debate.

Right, but look at it like this. What do they do with high school students when they teach them to drive? Software. They put them in a simulator to get used to the controls, where they are, what they do. You don’t put them in the big expensive hardware right away. In this case, it’s not quite as abstract because the software is actually synthesis, where the driving sim isn’t actual driving.

Anyway, I’m like you, I have no preference for hardware or software instruments. Both play a big part in how I make music. But, if you have a computer already, it’s easy to buy an inexpensive MIDI controller and get to work. You could make an entire epic album with Surge and Tyrell and keep your money in the bank until you get a handle on things. Then go shopping.

[JCJR]

When I sold my Trinity I lost over $2000. That's probably as much money as I've spent on software over 20 years, all gone in one hit.

I just never sell anything. Hardly ever buy anything either. I make dam sure I want something before buying so as to avoid regrets and the hassle of selling.

If I get too tired of a gadget or too cramped for space before it wears out will just give it away.

Well maybe some day I will sell music gear but can:t recall the last time. Maybe in the 1980s or 1990s. Its too much hassle especially if buyimg high and selling low. Don:t buy unless ya really want it. Use it til it wears out. Give away surplus.

[BONES]

I never regretted owning the Trinity for even a second. It was an awesome beast that took my music to an entirely new level. But once I'd replaced it with Orion, there was no point in having it any more, just as I'd sold my O1R/W after I replaced it with the Trinity. I never hang onto anything once I stop using it. I'd rather someone else, who would actually get some use from it, had it than it sit around unused at my place. That's why, over the years, I've also given away half-a-dozen hardware synths I'd had trouble selling. But these days, with things like eBay, selling stuff is easy. Or you put it in a second-hand shop, on commission, and let someone else sell it for you.

I'm not quite the same with softsynths. I tend to hang onto those for backwards-compatibility with old songs that we might one day want to play again. It's yet another big advantage of working ITB. There is literally nothing from my first 15 years of musical work that I could resurrect today, except by starting again from scratch. OTOH, every song, every idea I ever tinkered with after moving to PC is still available to me, still loads up and plays, either in Orion, Cubase or Studio One.

[cryophonik]

Right, but look at it like this. What do they do with high school students when they teach them to drive? Software. They put them in a simulator to get used to the controls, where they are, what they do. You don’t put them in the big expensive hardware right away. In this case, it’s not quite as abstract because the software is actually synthesis, where the driving sim isn’t actual driving.

Anyway, I’m like you, I have no preference for hardware or software instruments. Both play a big part in how I make music. But, if you have a computer already, it’s easy to buy an inexpensive MIDI controller and get to work. You could make an entire epic album with Surge and Tyrell and keep your money in the bank until you get a handle on things. Then go shopping.

That’s all fine, but my point is still that software is not the only way and it’s not even the best way to learn to drive or make noise or whatever. It’s *a* way of doing things. Yes, it’s often the cheapest way, but we don’t all make our decisions based solely on lowest cost and there’s nothing wrong with encouraging a beginner to learn how to make music on a dedicated hardware synth if that’s what he/she wants to do. If he/ she wants to learn on software, I’m all for that, too, if it gets them making music. My issue is simply that I get sick of the argument that beginners should always start with software simply because it’s cheap and easy. Nothing great was ever accomplished because it was cheap and easy.

[dellboy]

So that you can always be behind the times, using dated equipment. Someone else's cast-offs. I was like that through most of the hardware phase of my career, out of necessity, not choice.

Story of my life.

We were so poor that the mice packed up and left.

[vurt]

What's interesting to me is how many people on this forum bitch and moan about the horrid state of modern (overwhelmingly computer-based) music, but keep encouraging newcomers to stick with the same approach, rather than pick up an actual musical instrument. The (arguably) most original and best synth-based music came from the late 70s/80s by people who were using those "limited" hardware synths and doing far more original things with them than most modern "producers" with a virtually unlimited supply of software possibilities available to them. There's a lot to be gained from turning off your computer and working with an actual instrument. Just ask any musician.

Are you implying that hardware synths are instruments, but software synths are not? A lot of synths ARE basically computers...

What I'm saying, rather clearly IMO, is exactly what's written and it's in reply to those who insist that beginners should start with software. That's certainly one way to do it, but my point is simply that things were done just fine far before computer-based music took over and learning to play a musical instrument is a valuable skill that you won't learn by clicking a mouse all day. There's absolutely no reason that a beginner cannot or should not start with hardware. Like most hardware synth users, I use both, so I don't have a side in this stupid "hardware vs. software" debate.

Right, but look at it like this. What do they do with high school students when they teach them to drive? Software. They put them in a simulator to get used to the controls, where they are, what they do. You don’t put them in the big expensive hardware right away. In this case, it’s not quite as abstract because the software is actually synthesis, where the driving sim isn’t actual driving.

Anyway, I’m like you, I have no preference for hardware or software instruments. Both play a big part in how I make music. But, if you have a computer already, it’s easy to buy an inexpensive MIDI controller and get to work. You could make an entire epic album with Surge and Tyrell and keep your money in the bank until you get a handle on things. Then go shopping.

you're not likely to crash a synth in to another synth and kill someone on even your first go

[dellboy]

I am almost entirely computer based with VSTs and a contoller. My one old Roland synth is currently occupying space in the junk room and I guess should go to a better home.

Mind you I almost never use NI Komplete 12 - Sampletank full - the whole AIR package - and other stuff i have bought over the years and usually end up using the instruments in Cubase or Studio One, or freeware and my old rompler keyboard. Why I keep them I do not know. The moral being , choose your software well or your computer just gets full with unused expensive software junk.

But my recent foray in December at selling hardware on ebay was not great, as after the item sold ebay sent an email informing me they were keeping my £450 for almost a month to make sure everything went alright. I got the money in the end, but it has put me off putting more stuff on there.

[dellboy]

deleted

[clipnotic]

simple answer, stay with software till you are better than a beginner

[BONES]

Right, but look at it like this. What do they do with high school students when they teach them to drive? Software.

Not where I live. They don't teach driving at schools here, you get behind the wheel of a real car from the first day. If schools are using simulators, it's because that's cheaper than buying a fleet of cars for a whole class to learn in. It's a poor analogy.

[AdvancedFollower]

My issue is simply that I get sick of the argument that beginners should always start with software simply because it’s cheap and easy. Nothing great was ever accomplished because it was cheap and easy.

Whether you start with software or hardware, it still makes sense to start with something that's cheap and easy. This is true for all hobbies, that's just how it works. Buying a bunch of expensive equipment when you barely know the basics isn't just a waste of money. You might make the wrong purchasing decisions because you just don't know yet what you want, or even if this hobby is for you.

It just so happens that software is by far the cheapest and easiest way to get a taste of everything involved in music production. For the price of a Mininova or a couple of Volcas, you can get a small MIDI controller, some basic headphones, a free/cheap DAW like Cakewalk or Reaper and a bunch of plugins. That's pretty much all you need for years to come. Everything else comes down to dedication and talent.

Someone who's new to golfing would start with easy courses and cheap golf clubs. If you're thinking about learning to play the piano, you wouldn't immediately invest in a $40,000 Steinway, you'd probably get some cheap digital piano. You'd learn playing the electric guitar using some cheap knockoff brand before spending big bucks on an expensive cab and a Gibson or Fender, and so on and so on.

[BONES]

That’s all fine, but my point is still that software is not the only way and it’s not even the best way to learn to drive or make noise or whatever. It’s *a* way of doing things.

Of course it is. The investment is minimal, in every way, so if it turns out you hate it, you haven't wasted too much time, money or anything else. just in the time you'd spend deciding what hardware to buy, you could have tried out a couple of host applications and a dozen different plugin synths.

Yes, it’s often the cheapest way, but we don’t all make our decisions based solely on lowest cost and there’s nothing wrong with encouraging a beginner to learn how to make music on a dedicated hardware synth if that’s what he/she wants to do.

That's not the situation here. The OP asked a specific question, we're answering it. Just because some answers don't suit you, doesn't make those opinions less valid. As I said, it's not just money, it's time and convenience. You can sit in front of your computer and try out hundreds of softsynths and explore lots of different ways of working. OTOH, unless you are going to really commit to hardware and buy a whole set-up, all you'll really find out is if you like the particular thing you bought.

I get sick of the argument that beginners should always start with software simply because it’s cheap and easy.

Then make a valid argument for doing it a different way. All you've done is rant and rave. It's not helpful to anyone.

[BONES]

Actually, re-reading zuny's original post, I don't think we've been much help. So, zuny, here's what I think might be a good way forward for you. Go and download the free version of NI's Komplete. You'll get lots of free stuff to play around with and expand your horizons. Also download Vital and have a play with that, to get an idea of what you get when you spend a couple of hundred bucks on a plugin. Maybe Vital will convince you it's worth spending money on something like DUNE.

The next step would be to buy a couple of lower priced VSTi that still offer good quality. The first one that comes to mind is Adam Szabo's JP6K. It's only $29 but it offers the same sort of sound quality you get form the big boys. Another excellent, underrated synth is HY-Poly. It's $60, it packs a lot of features, it sounds good and it gets regular, meaningful/useful updates.

After you've had a good, deep dive into all of that stuff, if you feel like some hardware might be worth investing in, then you will probably have a good idea what to go for. But don't jump in at the deep end, start small and work your way up. I think the perfect first synth is probably a Korg Monologue. It's small and lightweight but it has a decent keyboard, lots of hands-on control and, most importantly, it sounds great. It's a proper analogue synth but it also has all the digital niceties like patch memory and a really good sequencer. The Monologue can also double as a MIDI controller for your softsynths, so you'll be expanding your set-up a lot by buying one.

[Stupid American Pig]

On gearslutz it’s hardware vs software. On kvr it’s software vs hardware.

Nothing wrong with starting with software but have a look at pawn and thrift stores as you may be surprised what you find and in my experience I have found some good deals. You can get a rough idea on the price of some kit by looking at eBay or Reverb (sale prices, not listed prices)

Literally the first piece of hardware I bought was a tb-303 and tr-606 for 60 bucks at a pawn shop.

[kvotchin]

I've been making beats by myself for a while now and considering buying a hardware synth cause they look fun and I can't fight the GAS, but I wonder if I should just spend more time getting better with the stock synths on my DAW or buy some plugins before investing in a hardware synth. Thoughts?

Do what makes you happy.

If you really want to have a hardware synth, buy one and use it.

If you don’t care too much either way, eh, just stick with software. The options are pretty damn amazing these days.

Also, there is a heckton of incredible free audio software out there. Hit that up, if you haven’t already. You might be surprised at the range and quality that’s available.