The Linnstrument's surface notches against slow bends/slides

[Ariloum]

I've been trying to stay out of this discussion, but it's time to step in.

Ariloum-- this forum is a place for friendly conversations between LinnStrument players. It is not appropriate for you to ask others to produce a video to disprove what you see as a limitation. If you wish to provide a simple video demonstrating--for discussion purposes--a realistic musical use case of what you believe is a limitation, you are welcome to do so. It can be a simple and short video. It does not need to be your magnum opus with volumes of supporting charts and graphs.

This is the same thing I've asked you to do--send me a short video--instead of the many long support emails that you have sent me. Once I see the video and better understand the exact problem you are having, I will be able to help you.

Hey Roger,
it's good to hear from you,
and it's nice that you stated this forum is for friendly conversation, because only half of the participants here was actually nice/friendly and tries to understand what I wrote and even reproduce the issue, while many others was not that frendly trying to kind of troll on me calling it absurd and so on, and I can't see the reason I can't request a video demonstration of some Linnstrument's possibilities of other Linnstrument owners if they are insistently claim they don't have slide bend issue I describe here - asking such video is just a kind prove of state they claimed. And, as you can see, noone were able to do this yet.

Meanwhile I've seen many interesting ideas here about different approaches to bending on the Linnstrument and I was happy to hear that and going to test all of them.

As I already told my video is in production, I'll upload it when it will be ready.

[Dirk Diggler]

I apologize Ariloum if you've mistaken my attempts to help as anything other than that.

By the way, I am actually nice and friendly.
Otherwise why would I keep trying to help?

I look forward to a real use musical video example of the issue. I'm pretty confident with the excellent brain power here, we can at least get you moving forward.
If you don't want to make the video public, just send it directly to Roger as he's requested.

You've got an amazing opportunity for direct help from the creator of the device, help him and us to help you.

I will tell you Roger's support is very unique in this day and age for a company of any size.

Thanks Roger for joining the conversation.

[Ariloum]

I apologize Ariloum if you've mistaken my attempts to help as anything other than that.

By the way, I am actually nice and friendly.
Otherwise why would I keep trying to help?

I look forward to a real use musical video example of the issue. I'm pretty confident with the excellent brain power here, we can at least get you moving forward.
If you don't want to make the video public, just send it directly to Roger as he's requested.

You've got an amazing opportunity for direct help from the creator of the device, help him and us to help you.

I will tell you Roger's support is very unique in this day and age for a company of any size.

Thanks Roger for joining the conversation.

Hey Dirk, I could interpret something wrong aswell, we all humans and our "sensors" might be overloaded/blind time to time, that's all fine.

Just wait for my video guys, maybe I will have some time for it tomorrow or at the beginning of the next week...

[Roger_Linn]

Ariloum-- please be sure that your video is not an extreme, non-musical case intended to find a fault, like for example performing an extremely slow pitch slide over many seconds. Remember that LinnStrument is a musical instrument, so your video example should be presenting a practical musical case.

And again, this video is not your magnum opus, so please don't make everyone watch a long, detailed video with lots of supporting details, graphs and screenshots. Just make a 10 second mobile phone video of playing a practical, musical-case pitch slide and demonstrating the problem you are experiencing.

[BobDog]

.. it's nice that you stated this forum is for friendly conversation, because only half of the participants here was actually nice/friendly..

Well I’m going to take umbrage with this as it is blatantly untrue.

Just because you can’t listen don’t blame the advice.

[TigerBalm]

This performance by Connor Golden includes many slow soulful slides. I really love it.

There is a bend right at the start and a few more good examples at 1:30. But don't skip!



I agree with the advice other folks have helpfully suggested. I tried to reproduce the bug and can barely hear it. I do agree the issue might be present to a some degree.

However, there is so much expressiveness to explore with the LinnStrument. So consider this a minor drawback and explore the rest of the instrument.

It was fun hearing you all have to put to words why we play LinnStrument. It's hard to describe sometimes.

[LarsDaniel]

This performance by Connor Golden includes many slow soulful slides. I really love it.

There is a bend right at the start and a few more good examples at 1:30. But don't skip!



I agree with the advice other folks have helpfully suggested. I tried to reproduce the bug and can barely hear it. I do agree the issue might be present to a some degree.

However, there is so much expressiveness to explore with the LinnStrument. So consider this a minor drawback and explore the rest of the instrument.

It was fun hearing you all have to put to words why we play LinnStrument. It's hard to describe sometimes.

Yeah, that is a cool performance by Connor. It took me a bit to figure out what is going on with the filter control, but the crucial thing is out of sight: His right foot is on a control pedal.
That is where the filter swells come from.

[Wizwingard]

I've been trying to stay out of this discussion, but it's time to step in.

Ariloum-- this forum is a place for friendly conversations between LinnStrument players. It is not appropriate for you to ask others to produce a video to disprove what you see as a limitation. If you wish to provide a simple video demonstrating--for discussion purposes--a realistic musical use case of what you believe is a limitation, you are welcome to do so. It can be a simple and short video. It does not need to be your magnum opus with volumes of supporting charts and graphs.

This is the same thing I've asked you to do--send me a short video--instead of the many long support emails that you have sent me. Once I see the video and better understand the exact problem you are having, I will be able to help you.

Hey Roger,
it's good to hear from you,
and it's nice that you stated this forum is for friendly conversation, because only half of the participants here was actually nice/friendly and tries to understand what I wrote and even reproduce the issue, while many others was not that frendly trying to kind of troll on me calling it absurd and so on, and I can't see the reason I can't request a video demonstration of some Linnstrument's possibilities of other Linnstrument owners if they are insistently claim they don't have slide bend issue I describe here - asking such video is just a kind prove of state they claimed. And, as you can see, noone were able to do this yet.

Meanwhile I've seen many interesting ideas here about different approaches to bending on the Linnstrument and I was happy to hear that and going to test all of them.

As I already told my video is in production, I'll upload it when it will be ready.

You’re absolutely right. I’ve recently bought a linnstrument and like it very much but came across this thread googling the exact same problem with stepped slow slides. I felt the need to comment because this poster was treated extremely unfairly by everyone posting in this thread besides one person.

For those saying they were trying to help go and read back your responses which were willfully unhelpful, patronising and defensive. It’s an issue with the linnstrument for some. Evidently it doesn’t bother most. But in this thread it’s bothered 3 people. I compose some classical parts and it’s an issue.

It’s really very very simple to understand for everyone so bewildered. The slow slides are stepped. He wasn’t playing with his eyes, as he was then told, he heard it and then demonstrated it. Telling someone to do other things with the instrument that it can do is not helpful and is dismissive. And telling him to go and play his iPad. I’ve used velocity kb many times and will have to for slow tempo parts involving bends. There were some obvious motivations beneath the surface of the thread in responses.

One person on this thread behaved decently and themselves recreated the issue and acknowledged it while trying to offer some help or suggestions. It’s not that hard.

It is also not valid as a few people have said to claim that slides of a certain slower speed are somehow not musical or fair tests. That just means there is an issue, which there is. Has no one heard Summertime? Try playing the opening to that. The whole point of linnstrument and MPE controllers is to humanise the playing experience and smooth transitions are possibly the defining characteristic of physical instruments.

I’ve read another thread re the same issue and watched a deconstruction video by Roger. I think the only solution is to make a better smoothing algorithm -

it’s much less smooth than an Ipad sliding in velocity kb. People are on the one hand rightly praising the instrument to the heavens for what a natural playing and feeling and musical thing it is then ignoring an issue that is severely interfering with just that. It might not sound like much to some but if the pressure dimension was stepped in such a way how would you feel.. it is a very noticeable reduction in smoothness in a musical context. Instruments played with masses of delay etc are going to hide it.

Anyway thank you to the one person who actually listened, tried it themselves, realised the issue and tried in a normal friendly non threatened way to help. It stands out and it shouldn’t. There was absolutely no need for the collective mocking tone. I think the original poster was a bit miffed that he’d spent so much money to lose functionality in something as prominent as the y axis in mpe

Replacing the touch sensitive pad so it’s just the strips is the only solution or making a better smoothing algorithm at a higher fidelity

Ps. I love my linnstrument.

[Ariloum]

You’re absolutely right. I’ve recently bought a linnstrument and like it very much but came across this thread googling the exact same problem with stepped slow slides. I felt the need to comment because this poster was treated extremely unfairly by everyone posting in this thread besides one person.

Hey Wizwingard, thanks for your opinion. Personally I gave up with this topic because got too overwhelmed on it's community responses.

For me this issue as clear as day. Someone posted a video few posts above with Connor Golden perfomance: it's great and I liked it, BUT in case of bends it's terrible. Any solo guitarist who has ears trained and who can do advanced melismas could see this error with zero effort.

But my guess people here are mostly using it as piano with a little expression but not as guitar bending replacement. I also gave up on my comparison video where I recorded same melody on 3 instruments (real guitar with guitar2midi vst, velocidy kb on ipad and linnstrument) and wanted to show how does midi bend automations looks/sounds like and how terrible is bending on Linnstrument is in relation but something stopped me - my guess that community here with Roger does not welcome this (prob it slightly affect sales? or idk) and I quit.

[hesitz]

You’re absolutely right. I’ve recently bought a linnstrument and like it very much but came across this thread googling the exact same problem with stepped slow slides. I felt the need to comment because this poster was treated extremely unfairly by everyone posting in this thread besides one person.

For me this issue as clear as day. Someone posted a video few posts above with Connor Golden perfomance: it's great and I liked it, BUT in case of bends it's terrible. Any solo guitarist who has ears trained and who can do advanced melismas could see this error with zero effort.

But my guess people here are mostly using it as piano with a little expression but not as guitar bending replacement. I also gave up on my comparison video where I recorded same melody on 3 instruments (real guitar with guitar2midi vst, velocidy kb on ipad and linnstrument) and wanted to show how does midi bend automations looks/sounds like and how terrible is bending on Linnstrument is in relation but something stopped me - my guess that community here with Roger does not welcome this (prob it slightly affect sales? or idk) and I quit.

I'm not a solo guitarist, and I admit my ears may not be great, but I don't understand what's "terrible" about the bends in the Connor Golden video. I would like to see that video comparing bends with three different instruments; I expect it would clarify the issue for me. If it's a bad enough problem I expect there are enterprising coders in the community who could make mods to the open sourced code.

[John the Savage]

Someone posted a video few posts above with Connor Golden perfomance: it's great and I liked it, BUT in case of bends it's terrible. Any solo guitarist who has ears trained and who can do advanced melismas could see this error with zero effort.

[...]

I also gave up on my comparison video where I recorded same melody on 3 instruments (real guitar with guitar2midi vst, velocidy kb on ipad and linnstrument) and wanted to show how does midi bend automations looks/sounds like and how terrible is bending on Linnstrument is in relation but something stopped me ... and I quit.

Alright, that's enough.

As a career guitarist, who uses the LinnStrument in a professional capacity every day, I'm calling you out... In so far as making music is concerned, I think you're full of sh_t.

But hey, if you do quit anything, I hope you quit coming here to burden and insult the otherwise amicable members of this small community with this pedantic plight of yours, and leave the enjoyment of the LinnStrument to the rest of us, who prefer to accept it as its own instrument and play to its many strengths.

Have fun making those 5-second semitone bends with your iPad or the slide whistle or what have you. It seems to me that you've got it all figured out, and the LinnStrument simply doesn't factor in, so...

Off you go.

Cheers!

[Ariloum]

Alright, that's enough.

As a career guitarist, who uses the LinnStrument in a professional capacity every day, I'm calling you out... In so far as making music is concerned, I think you're full of sh_t.

Hello, John.

I'm happy to finally meet here professional guitarist who uses Linnstrument, I'd love to know how did you solve bends issue I described here? In case of slow bends. I choice 5 seconds interval because it's easier to hear and reproduce the issue, but I'd love to see your solos on Linnstrument with lots of 1-2 seconds bends, do you have one (bluesy/pinkfloydish etc)? Because I tried to find any video with this type of Linnstrument usage and there is none so far.

Also imagine there could be other uses of slide X axis - not only for bends, but to record other automatizations which is mush longer than 5sec, and if it's slow then it's full of gaps on the automatization record where your finger crosses the notches and you have to manually fix it after the record. But hey, if you have to re-edit it isn't it easier to write it from scratch with the mouse (if it's not live) or other more precise instruments? (I prefer using expressive e touche for this)
Keep in mind other people here describe same issue aswell.

It seems to me that you've got it all figured out

Yes, I figured out that Linnstrument is not for bends and I stopped using it as bending machine.
I like Linnstrument too and it has many strengths, and that is sad to me that I can't add bends (and slow X automatizations) as one of it's strengths too.

And just curious, why did you choice to communicate in defensive-aggressive manner?

[John the Savage]

I'd love to know how did you solve bends issue I described here? In case of slow bends.

What makes you think that I see this as a problem to solve?

Not being able to perform painfully slow bends on the LinnStrument, within the absurd parameters that you've proposed, is no more an "issue" than not being able to play a partita on a snare drum.

What is it with the LinnStrument that seems to invite these kinds of arbitrary comparisons, as though it exists only to accommodate every ill-conceived use-case, no matter how esoteric, music-related or not, to such an insufferable degree of minutiae?

What kind of reception do you think you'd get, if you went on a guitar forum and questioned the guitar's merits as juxtaposed to an iOS app or a slide whistle? Or if you went on there as a violinist just to gripe about glissandos?

If you were to buy any other instrument and not connect with it, for whatever reason, you would simply move on, else apply yourself to it. The LinnStrument should be no different.

And all these "willfully unhelpful" responses, from all of us "patronising and defensive" LinnStrumentalists, weren't actually meant to solve this unsolvable problem for you (or your lone sympathizer), but rather intended to help you reconcile what the LinnStrument in fact is, as apposed to an iPad (or whatever other abstractions you have drawn in your head).

You asked. We answered. Then you presumed to put the onus on us to challenge or disprove your petty grievance, all whilst failing (or refusing) to demonstrate the perceived problem yourself, within the context of a musical example.

The LinnStrument, you see, was designed to play music, not to be put under a microscope and treated as a science experiment.

Your persistence in this matter borders on gaslighting at this point. And that, if you must know, is why you have met with this hostility.

Cheers!

[glittle]

Just fyi, here is another mitigation for that issue, for those that notice it. It was an issue for me personally, and I tried the plastic strip mod as described here. It works great, and makes for comfortable, smooth, slow sliding from note to note:

viewtopic.php?p=8648449

[DarkenedMonastery]

It's also avoidable with the speedbump surface, they're perfectly flat above and below the bumps and you can slide without any resistance.

I'm baffled at some of the responses in this thread arguing that you can't hear the bend rate change as a finger goes over the notch. You might not care but they're definitely audible