Waveform 12

[THE INTRANCER]

I could create a new thread about this, but having tested this software, Waveform 12 Free. I have to say that it's one of the worst pieces of music software I've ever used. I could go on about the whole interface design, how sluggish it is, how jumpy the movement of timeline is. But that's not the worst thing. This software will crash so hard that it resets your computer. I would normally expect this with 3D rendering software when you run out of ram, but not with music software. I created a video on my camcorder of this happening, but in short, the software will load, but exiting will crash the application to desktop and then force Windows 10 to reboot almost instantly.

For reference, I have an I7 920 system with 20 gigs of RAM, an RX570 8 Gig graphics card, a Focusrite Pro 14 interface, and I'm running Windows 10 version 21H2.

No blue screens, no errors, just a complete reboot. I created a video of Waveform 12 running like a slug and then crashing when exiting with my camcorder. None of my other software does this, which is why I'll be sticking with Studio One 4.6 Pro for the time being because it's solid and performs well.

[jjpscott01]

Wow Its crazy how experiences can very from system to system. Even when I had stability issues with previous versions software, I would've never described it as "sluggish". I will say I had problems with the software crashing for many years and gave up on it a couple of times before giving it another chance. I never once had it crash my entire system though. Version 12 on my Windows 10 21h2 PC and on my Windows 11 machine so far has been very stable. Granted im on a Ryzen 5 3600 PC so its a much newer processor than a first generation I7 but I would still think it would be pretty stable on any 4-core processor. Out of Curiosity, have you tried Waveform 12 on another machine yet to see if it reacts differently with a newer setup? If the software was taking down my entire system I'd be pretty frustrated with it as well.

[THE INTRANCER]

Wow Its crazy how experiences can very from system to system. Even when I had stability issues with previous versions software, I would've never described it as "sluggish". I will say I had problems with the software crashing for many years and gave up on it a couple of times before giving it another chance. I never once had it crash my entire system though. Version 12 on my Windows 10 21h2 PC and on my Windows 11 machine so far has been very stable. Granted im on a Ryzen 5 3600 PC so its a much newer processor than a first generation I7 but I would still think it would be pretty stable on any 4-core processor. Out of Curiosity, have you tried Waveform 12 on another machine yet to see if it reacts differently with a newer setup? If the software was taking down my entire system I'd be pretty frustrated with it as well.

The only other system I have is my old 1.73 Ghz dualcore laptop, but it needs a replacement battery and that has Windows 7 on it.

I still use 7200RPM hard disks for my system, so it takes a little while longer to boot than an SSD.

Enjoy the atmosphere of noisy seagulls and pet bird.

[pough]

I'm not sure if you're interested in taking some time to try to track down the issue, but if you are these are my recommendations:

1. Settings -> Advanced -> Performance -> GUI rendering mode. Change it from what it is to what it isn't
2. Settings -> Audio Devices. Make sure you're using ASIO and the correct driver for your audio device
3. Settings -> Plugins -> Enable plugin sandboxing (and make sure it's also checked for the plugins you're using)
4. Use VST2 versions instead of VST3 versions of plugins
5. Settings -> Maintenance -> Show the Log File. There might be some information in there

I put the device issues first because it's not often software alone can cause a reboot. If it were just a plugin conflict I would expect Waveform to shut down without doing any further damage.

Good luck (and scritches for the pet bird). These things are frustrating to deal with.

[THE INTRANCER]

Changed the renderer from Software to OpenGL, downloaded one of the demo songs again, pressed play and couldn't stop the damn thing from playing and had to use the Task Manager to shut the software down. This time it didn't crash my system to reboot. Honestly... it's more crashing waves than a full waveform lol... The software is just too buggy.

As for sand boxing, here's what admiralbumblebee wrote about it with Waveform 11.

https://www.admiralbumblebee.com/music/ ... 1-Pro.html

Sandboxing carries the downside of introducing some performance loss. Communicating between processes is less efficient (more latent) than simply using the plugin “normally”.

Waveform 11 allows sandboxing, but it’s a bit odd.

Waveform has a single sandbox. All the plugins are thrown over to that sandbox. If one plugin crashes, they all crash.

You read that right. If one plugin crashes, every plugin in your project is taken offline. It doesn’t end there either, any new sandboxed plugins will be disabled until you restart the sandbox process.

I understand the benefit here is that Waveform supposedly won’t crash from an errant plugin, but a single sandbox for all plugins is bewildering. When something crashes you can’t even tell which plugin crashed! Everything goes offline and you’re left scratching your head as to which plugin it was. Maybe it was the last thing you added, or maybe it was what you were looking at, or a plugin crashed due to an automation bug, or some random OGL bug or… who knows!?

The icing on the cake is that I had Waveform crash more times with sandboxing on than with it off, and it caused some plugins to crash more frequently.

[jjpscott01]

I'm not sure if you're interested in taking some time to try to track down the issue, but if you are these are my recommendations:

1. Settings -> Advanced -> Performance -> GUI rendering mode. Change it from what it is to what it isn't

This is a great thought. It reminded me that when I first installed Waveform 12 on my Windows 11 system I was having a really bad lag problem and I toggled this same setting. (Cant remember I checked or unchecked it) but it did the trick. Haven't had the same issue since. Definitely check this if you haven't already.

[pough]

The software is just too buggy.

It certainly isn't liking your system. None of the problems you're describing happen for me. The basic program runs great here. Some plugins are finicky but it's a very small percentage. I had different problems on a different computer. One of Klevgrand's synths would crash Waveform every time it was removed from memory. Doesn't happen at all on the current computer.

As for sand boxing...

Sandboxing definitely adds complication, but can save you from crashes. The way I have it set up is to have the sandbox on but only enable the plugins that I know can cause crashes. Some plugins do not like being sandboxed. In particular Wusik plugins, which have their own personal sandbox. Sandboxing an already-sandboxed plugin is bad news. I recall also some Voxengo plugins would only crash the sandbox when sandboxed; without it they ran fine.

If you're running demo songs, does that mean it's only using Tracktion's plugins and no 3rd-party? What's it like when you have a song that only has audio and no plugins?

It still sounds like a hardware/driver issue to me. If your video drivers are up to date and you can't get Waveform working well, there might not be anything you can do. Good thing it's free and you already use StudioOne.

[THE INTRANCER]

The software is just too buggy.

It certainly isn't liking your system. None of the problems you're describing happen for me. The basic program runs great here. Some plugins are finicky but it's a very small percentage. I had different problems on a different computer. One of Klevgrand's synths would crash Waveform every time it was removed from memory. Doesn't happen at all on the current computer.

As for sand boxing...

Sandboxing definitely adds complication, but can save you from crashes. The way I have it set up is to have the sandbox on but only enable the plugins that I know can cause crashes. Some plugins do not like being sandboxed. In particular Wusik plugins, which have their own personal sandbox. Sandboxing an already-sandboxed plugin is bad news. I recall also some Voxengo plugins would only crash the sandbox when sandboxed; without it they ran fine.

If you're running demo songs, does that mean it's only using Tracktion's plugins and no 3rd-party? What's it like when you have a song that only has audio and no plugins?

It still sounds like a hardware/driver issue to me. If your video drivers are up to date and you can't get Waveform working well, there might not be anything you can do. Good thing it's free and you already use StudioOne.

I only downloaded it and installed it out of curiosity... and running the demo songs with no other VSTs being used is what I did to test it.

I imagine that the user base for Waveform to be pretty tiny in comparison to the major DAW players and one of the primary reasons if not the primary reason is that it's just unreliable and has a UI and way of working that's just really weird. It's like Blender from 2002 with a copy and paste from other modern DAWs. It's like when you lift the lid to see Frankenstein hiding in the coal cellar.... you just run.

Waveform has some interesting things, but at the end of the day it's a budget DAW, and if you want quality, you have to pay for it, as with many things.

[jjpscott01]

Sounds like it probably just isn't for you my friend. Which is fine of course since Studio One is working great on your system. Its a great piece of software too and Presonus has some really nice hardware.

[pough]

and has a UI and way of working that's just really weird

That's what drew me to it, way back in the early 2000s. I had started with Cubase, but I hated it. I hated that the audio flow was so odd. You select the instrument on the left but only after you create the instrument in a normally-invisible rack. MIDI gets recorded in the middle going toward the right but was routed back through the left into the VST instrument and then the audio suddenly comes up through the bottom in the faux-mixer. I get that keyboard folks are used to things like that but I come from the bass/guitar world where cables are all visible and the flow makes sense.

I also really liked how it behaved like software, not hardware. A lot of hardware has limitations due to it's physical reality. Why re-create that in software? Make the send a plugin and put it anywhere you like. Want 32 of them? No problem.

But if you dislike all the things about it that I think make it good, then yeah. It's nice to have choices. I also use FL Studio and it works differently from both Waveform and StudioOne.

[Igro]

Just a few negatives:

1) Cannot disable a fx plugin with one click.
2) Highlighting an fx plugin instantly opens the plugin.
3) Effects gui has a close button on the left. A nightmare for a Windows user
4) Adding more plugins to the track chain makes hard to read the fx headers.

For me, these are majors righ now. Hope they will improve it.

[JamminFool]

3) Effects gui has a close button on the left. A nightmare for a Windows user

i hate this also. I've always wondered why. (all plugins are like that in waveform. non-standard for no reason that i can tell).

[Trancit]

Just a few negatives:

1) Cannot disable a fx plugin with one click.
2) Highlighting an fx plugin instantly opens the plugin.
3) Effects gui has a close button on the left. A nightmare for a Windows user
4) Adding more plugins to the track chain makes hard to read the fx headers.

For me, these are majors righ now. Hope they will improve it.

Don´t worry... you´ll find a lot more...

Waveform looks great on the paper but once you´ll start to really do production work in it you´ll hit the walls/limits much much sooner as you´d like...
They implemented a ton of "best" features from other DAWs but most of them are just superficial and do not go very deep...
Many hype the quite overcomplicated need for racks to build the simplest routings like sends in Waveform "freedom"... for most tasks it´s just annoying and cumbersome... the way to route multi out plugins alone is already ridiculous...

These were at least my findings in Waveform... if it didn´t crash...

[vitocorleone123]

@jjpscott01 -- I think you captured everything I like about Waveform as well, particularly the last sentence of your second paragraph about inputs and plugins.

I'll also point out that your bio indicates you've been around the block with other DAWs, so your observations are particularly valuable.

Yes I have and I still do use other DAW's for certain things. I use Cubase for some larger projects and I'm a massive fan of Reason in general but Waveform has really come into its own over the years. I think its at a point where it deserves much more attention and I'd love to see more producers and songwriters give it a second look. I'm hoping the recent release of Waveform 12 free will get it some more eyes on it. Those Tracktion fellas have really developed a nice piece of software.

v11 is where I finally considered it a truly competitive DAW, after they rewrote the engine - faster, more efficient, better handling of latency, more stable overall, etc. v12 is possibly the best even-numbered version of the DAW I can remember (going back to v3 when Mackie was in charge of it for awhile)... previously I always found the odd-numbered versions to be the most stable.

I like the mixer view for quickly adjust volume and panning across tracks. But, otherwise, I still prefer just the track view (ie not messing with plugins from the mixer view). If I had multiple screens I'd probably leave it open. As it is, I rarely ever even look at it.

Even though I'm using Studio One now instead, I still paid for my upgrade, just as I always have, because I want to continue supporting the company.

[pekbro]

Is that demo notice supposed to come up in the 90 day trial? Anyone... It's pretty annoying.

*edit nvm...