OTO BIM vst alternative?

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

For the people suggesting lx480 and LX24; those are reverbs. The 480 is not vintage enough to compete. The 224 hardware is a great reverb, but a shitty delay. Because it was'nt designed as a delay and lacks the features.

The LX-24 reference was me, but I was specifically saying it's in the same wheelhosue as the BAM (which I have - and which is a reverb), not the BIM (which I don't have). I was suggesting it would be great if OTO made plugins because they do incredible sounding stuff.

[drsyncenstein]

Does PrimalTap have any latency like Echoboy?

No, not like echoboy. It has three times the latency of echoboy
Might be the delay with the highest latency out there.
In my collection only the Arturia modelled delays also have higher latency.
I guess thats the price for more realistic distortion.

[audiouser720]

Does PrimalTap have any latency like Echoboy?

No, not like echoboy. It has three times the latency of echoboy
Might be the delay with the highest latency out there.
In my collection only the Arturia modelled delays also have higher latency.
I guess thats the price for more realistic distortion.

That’s a bummer. Just out of curiosity. Do you therefore use it on a send or just as an insert?

[drsyncenstein]

Depending on situation. It's easy to build up latency on a track when you use lots of vst synth and fx, so latency is something that i have to live with anyway.

[zerocrossing]

Saying you've not heard a plugin sound the same as hardware is subjective. Clearly digital plugins can sound exactly the same as digital effects, so you must mean analog, and analog emulation has become so good that you would not be able to tell the difference in most cases.

You mustn’t know what the BIM is, I suspect. It’s not just digital. I also don’t think that analog emulations are ‘there’. There is not one analog emulation yet, either synth or effect, that maintains the same sound properties above certain thresholds. Just within its limits. That, of course, doesn’t mean that you can’t make fakken amazing music with them

By “maintain the same sound properties above certain thresholds” you must mean, “not sound like crap” which is one of the main things that I notice about emulations. Developers can’t bring themselves to make their emulations sound as bad. There’s currently a fun blind test of the Hydrasynth next to several classic analog synths. Almost no one guessed on the first filter sweep test and no one guessed the second test correctly. Not a one.

I’ve got a bunch of hardware synths, including analog and hybrid models, and one thing I do when I get one into my studio is do pretty hard core comparisons of things that are things that software has been traditionally bad at. Filters going into self oscillation, audio rate modulation and oscillator sync are the usual suspects. I’m having harder and harder times finding the places where the software breaks down. If anything, they’re too stable and provide useful sounds while the hardware is struggling. I suspect that behavior isn’t faithfully modeled because customers really don’t want it. Recently a KVR member complained that the low end rolloff amount when you turned Polymax’s resonance up is “unrealistic.” It matched the behavior of the Moog clone in my ATC-X and the ladder filter on my Nina exactly. People can’t handle the truth.

So this is why I think the best stance in selecting anything, hardware or software, is not to ask if X is like Y. Ask if X provides the type of sound that you want. I’ve never used a BIM, but I had a Dreadbox Hypnosis for a few weeks and returned it. The sound I got from Colour Copy, Valhalla Delay, Twangström and other plugins was considerably better to my tastes and a lot more flexible. I’m glad the software wasn’t the same. If I want knobs I load them into Maschine.

[zerocrossing]

Depending on situation. It's easy to build up latency on a track when you use lots of vst synth and fx, so latency is something that i have to live with anyway.

Resource management is nothing new, it’s just like hardware. You wouldn’t have each track have its own delay line, especially back in the day. What I generally do is use UAD while composing and then switch to the plugin versions or native alternatives for final mix when latency is irrelevant.

[zerocrossing]

Aren’t there enough analog vs digital threads out there?

I think it’s easy enough just to discuss BIM without going into all analog emulations and post endlessly with no end.

Sorry for your pain
a conclusion was already reached; there is no plugin emulation.

For some it’s not true, for others it’s absolute true, then come the blind tests, conversations about how things sound in a mix and on and on and on before it gets personal and people flag posts.

I just posted a blind guitar amp shoot out on Gearspace where the majority of respondents picked a plugin that I hadn’t even heard of as the real amp, which was revealed to be a 5150. If there’s a device that’s chock full of non-linearities, it’s a guitar amp, and no one got it. The example most people liked best was the Waves PRS Supermodels plugin.

https://www.waves.com/plugins/prs-supermodels

My favorite was the Neural DSP Fortin NTS, though they all sounded good in their own way, including one of the plugins that is free. Basically, it no longer really matters what you use. I think that scares people because now you have to think more about how you use what you have and how everything fits with how you like to work.

[elxsound]

Aren’t there enough analog vs digital threads out there?

I think it’s easy enough just to discuss BIM without going into all analog emulations and post endlessly with no end.

Sorry for your pain
a conclusion was already reached; there is no plugin emulation.

For some it’s not true, for others it’s absolute true, then come the blind tests, conversations about how things sound in a mix and on and on and on before it gets personal and people flag posts.

I just posted a blind guitar amp shoot out on Gearspace where the majority of respondents picked a plugin that I hadn’t even heard of as the real amp, which was revealed to be a 5150. If there’s a device that’s chock full of non-linearities, it’s a guitar amp, and no one got it. The example most people liked best was the Waves PRS Supermodels plugin.

https://www.waves.com/plugins/prs-supermodels

My favorite was the Neural DSP Fortin NTS, though they all sounded good in their own way, including one of the plugins that is free. Basically, it no longer really matters what you use. I think that scares people because now you have to think more about how you use what you have and how everything fits with how you like to work.

Definitely agree...

My interest is if it sounds good or if it serves a purpose. I love Bim, Bam, and Boum but aside from the sound it has to do with not needing a computer when I use it, as well as being able to use it with the computer when I want to.

I'm also looking forward to the day these will get their own emulations that people will argue about.

I still want to pick up OTO Biscuit... but from Softube, not hardware, because of how I'd use it.

I don't think it matters much anymore. It's crazy how good things have become in the software domain, and such a great time for hardware too.

[drsyncenstein]

Depending on situation. It's easy to build up latency on a track when you use lots of vst synth and fx, so latency is something that i have to live with anyway.

Resource management is nothing new, it’s just like hardware. You wouldn’t have each track have its own delay line, especially back in the day. What I generally do is use UAD while composing and then switch to the plugin versions or native alternatives for final mix when latency is irrelevant.

Seems you read something in my post that i did not imply. I just answered a question about how i work.
I'm so old that i bought a 1.0 version of a midi sequencer when it was first released on mac 68k. So i have some idea how it was back in the day.
I used to have a uad duo card. Sold it because it had it's own additional buffer size. Never regretted it. Nowadays 32 cores keep me happy.
Checked out the native uad lexicon 224 when the Arturia was released. Compared both to the real thing. I can't understand why people pay a premium for uad. If it doesnt sound like the real thing, why pay like it's the real thing?

[audiouser720]

Depending on situation. It's easy to build up latency on a track when you use lots of vst synth and fx, so latency is something that i have to live with anyway.

Resource management is nothing new, it’s just like hardware. You wouldn’t have each track have its own delay line, especially back in the day. What I generally do is use UAD while composing and then switch to the plugin versions or native alternatives for final mix when latency is irrelevant.

Seems you read something in my post that i did not imply. I just answered a question about how i work.
I'm so old that i bought a 1.0 version of a midi sequencer when it was first released on mac 68k. So i have some idea how it was back in the day.
I used to have a uad duo card. Sold it because it had it's own additional buffer size. Never regretted it. Nowadays 32 cores keep me happy.
Checked out the native uad lexicon 224 when the Arturia was released. Compared both to the real thing. I can't understand why people pay a premium for uad. If it doesnt sound like the real thing, why pay like it's the real thing?

Did the Arturia sound like the real thing?

[drsyncenstein]

No, they both differed in some ways from the 224 i compared them too. Perhaps the uad captured the character a little better, but it was way too bright and clean. Not a scientific test for sure. Bought the Arturia because i considered it more true than the NI rc24 i already had and it was too good to resist. Also, Arturia added advanced options that made it more interesting.
Keep in mind i have an untreated reverb+delay fetish.

[audiouser720]

No, they both differed in some ways from the 224 i compared them too. Perhaps the uad captured the character a little better, but it was way too bright and clean. Not a scientific test for sure. Bought the Arturia because i considered it more true than the NI rc24 i already had and it was too good to resist. Also, Arturia added advanced options that made it more interesting.
Keep in mind i have an untreated reverb+delay fetish.

Yeah me too. But since I use OTO BIM BAM I can’t get satisfied ITB. I actually like Relab and the new Arturia. There is something about them that is similar to BAM. It’s not necessarily the lexicon sound. It’s how they wrap around the source and most importantly how they maintain their pleasurable response. It’s so hard to explain but there is something about most vst reverbs and some hardware as well tbf (like strymon) that they cause ear fatigue after a while Maybe it’s do with some resonance ins some frequencies, I have no idea. But BAM remains pleasant no matter the source and I think Relab is same and Lx-24, having demoed it for a while.

But delay… same goes for delay. There is nothing with that ear candy pleasant sound of BIM (and Korg, Lexicon vintage digital).
I tried NI Replika and didn’t like it. Can’t put my finger on it. It’s just like most vst delays. Too sterile. I actually preferred Waves H-Delay which was somewhat warmer. But I just use Echoboy itb mostly. Very far away from BIM but it has a nice natural sound to it I guess.

I think I have addiction to these effects. They are more important in my workflow than synths and goodness me I LOVE synth

[drsyncenstein]

The best hardware delay for me is the pcm80. Not vintage sound, but there must be someone inside it with a can of syrup. Pouring loads over the signal. Echoboy is one delay that i own for some reason never use. Probably because you are right. We agree on H-delay. There is something about the H-reverb i like too. Relab; like sonsig most and goldplate when you crank the squish knob way too high. 480 sounds too realistic for what i do with it. I knew Arturia from the so so synths, but they surprised me. There are quite a few good fx in the bundle. Supermassive is also a favourite, in my book the plugz he gives away for free are his best.

[Ah_Dziz]

For this type of "character" effect I'd go to something like Max or Reaktor so that you could setup the digital interpolation and nonlinear elements in the feedback exactly how you want. Using a semi modular host like bigwig would allow for a complex chain around and inside a digital delay as well with slightly less work.
As with most things, if you think it's super cool sounding hardware, just get the hardware. Someone may go crazy in depth one day trying to make a plugin version of your favorite hardware effect or synth, but even then people have drastically different reactions to their perception of the "sound".

[audiouser720]

The best hardware delay for me is the pcm80. Not vintage sound, but there must be someone inside it with a can of syrup. Pouring loads over the signal. Echoboy is one delay that i own for some reason never use. Probably because you are right. We agree on H-delay. There is something about the H-reverb i like too. Relab; like sonsig most and goldplate when you crank the squish knob way too high. 480 sounds too realistic for what i do with it. I knew Arturia from the so so synths, but they surprised me. There are quite a few good fx in the bundle. Supermassive is also a favourite, in my book the plugz he gives away for free are his best.

Yeah it seems we have similar taste in rev / del. I also think Lx480 is amazing but too realistic, not dirty / grainy enough. Funny about Valhalla the only one I like is the free Supermassive and not because it’s free. It’s their best sounding plugin IMHO.

One of my secret weapons are Rounds reverb and delay in Reaktor Blocks. I think those cheeky little effects sound awesome.