Why no LINUX-Section?

[vista]

@whyterabbyt

Windows HAS 90 % on the market
http://www.itfacts.biz/index.php?id=P1059


1.

Absolute nonsense

Linux Kernel affects 283 (!) registered software patents !
http://www.arnnet.com.au/index.php/id;1 ... 1976458394

2.

Doesnt matter if its 'most' or not

nope !
kvr would be nothing without windows !
every company has to reach the crowd to pay the bills !
It's better to have ONE standard regarding driver & co.
this standard IS windows, if you want it or not.
Linux would have a bigger problem without WINE !

3.

So?

yes, do you know KVR and the Freeware-Sites outthere ?
yes, you don't get a DVD with GIGAS of stuff, but
the chance to get what you need for free.

4.

So?

yes, since Windows2000 !

5.

And most of them can be downloaded for free

Microsoft ServicePacks are Updates too, and they are FREE.
AND please look at point 1: If Linux-distributors would pay
for the patents the price is another.

new Windows license is actually 3 or more times the cost of an update

yes, if you don't have an old Windows and don't buy an old licence on ebay to start.

percentage of users as a whole who dont have such problems

the learning curve of linux is higher. if something happens it is harder
to solve. it is an open secret that linux users are higher educated
(students, academics, ...) than the "man on the street".
therefore they did a proper setup and configuration.
Windows is the OS of the crowd. Consequently the error rate (installation,
maintenance,...) is higher and the "image" is lower.

are virus or malware related, rather than drivers

ok, actually a nonprotected linux is saver than a nonprotected Windows.
But if Linux would have 90 percent of the market, hackers
would concentrate on it and the picture looks different.

Linux has still more driver probs than windows.
cause a lot of companys don't deliver (proper) hardware drivers,
so that in best case the linux hacker build their own unauthorized.



Regards.


vista

[whyterabbyt]

vista quoth
Windows HAS 90 % on the market
http://www.itfacts.biz/index.php?id=P1059

That figure has no relevance to the utility of Linux. You also fail to mention that the same article expects that to drop to 58% in the next 3 years.

Or that Windows only has 35% of the server market.


Linux Kernel affects 283 (!) registered software patents !
http://www.arnnet.com.au/index.php/id;1 ... 1976458394


Im aware of that claim, thank you.

Note that the article directly contradicts your own statement when you said...

The days of linux are counted

That statement is nonsense, as per the artice.

"The conclusion we came to is not that Linux is doomed and that this is horrible," he said. "It's very similar to the result you would get if you investigated any other software program that's as successful as Linux."

You also fail to mention who holds these patents, for example IBM, a major investor in and supporter of Linux hold 60 of them.

You also comletely fail to take account of the fact that it is entirely possible for the Linux developers to replpace code dependent on any patent, thus removing the problem.

BTW IBM owns some of the patents that Windows relies on. Novell owns others, and has stated that it will use them as ammunition in threats against Linux.

So once again, I repeat, your statement that The days of linux are counted is nonsense.

kvr would be nothing without windows !

Your claim of knwoledge of a factual result of a hypoethetical situation is ridiculous.

every company has to reach the crowd to pay the bills !

This meaning snothing relevant to the discussion.

It's better to have ONE standard regarding driver & co.

Prove it.

this standard IS windows, if you want it or not.

Windows is not a driver standard. PLease do not confuse the matter by conflating unrelated ideas into claims of

Linux would have a bigger problem without WINE !

Again, unsubstantiated nonsense. Linux has no problems that WINE solves, WINE is unrelated to drivers, and the success of Linux

yes, do you know KVR and the Freeware-Sites outthere ?

No never heard of them.

yes, you don't get a DVD with GIGAS of stuff, but
the chance to get what you need for free.

So what. You can get 'GIGAS' of stuff free for Linux, and the Mac as well. The point was irrelevant.

yes, since Windows2000 !

I didnt dispute it, I asked what the relevance of that is? I've seen Linux servers run for years without a single reboot. That is stable.

Microsoft ServicePacks are Updates too, and they are FREE.

Free updates are nt the same thing as a free operating system.

AND please look at point 1: If Linux-distributors would pay for the patents the price is another.[/i

Another hypothesis. Based on a misinterpretation or misrepresentation of the facts, as I pointed out.

the learning curve of linux is higher.

No, that is not necessarily true.

if something happens it is harder to solve.

No that is not necessarily true.

it is an open secret that linux users are higher educated (students, academics, ...) than the "man on the street".

No, that is not necessarily true.

therefore they did a proper setup and configuration.


Windows is the OS of the crowd. Consequently the error rate (installation, maintenance,...) is higher and the "image" is lower.

You are conflating two things and drawing an unsubstantiated conclusion. Yes Windows is the 'OS of the crowd' in that it is very dominant in the consumer market. However that fact does not imply that the 'error rate[/i' (as you put it) is automatically higher. It could be that Windows is buggier, and that is what causes the error rate to be higher, for example.

ok, actually a nonprotected linux is saver than a nonprotected Windows.
But if Linux would have 90 percent of the market, hackers
would concentrate on it and the picture looks different.

Not necessarily. Hacking a more secure box is automatically harder. However there are basic security issues in Windows that are not issues in other systems, ie the many many vulnerabilities caused by the way Outlook, Internet Explorere et.c. operate.


Linux has still more driver probs than windows.
cause a lot of companys don't deliver (proper) hardware drivers,

Saying that is 'driver problems' implies there are more problems with the existing drivers, which is not true. And the fact that companies dont deliver drivers is irrelevant. In fact many Linux driver writers have written much better drivers than those supplied by the hardware manufacturer.

so that in best case the linux hacker build their own unauthorized.

This statement is absolute nonsense. There is no authorization required to write a driver.

And lets get back to the root of your post. Someone asked for more Linux coverage and you basically post saying it shouldnt happen for the reasons you claim? Because windows has a large marketshare?

Are you going to insist on the same things wrt the Mac, btw?

[zettberlin]

thank you, whyterabbyt i agree completely. I'd like to point to some more specific for a musicians-page:

1.) the "man on the street" does not arrange 32-Trackrecordings an does not know, how to attach a pitchshifter-plugin to a certain track that is a guitar and should be a bass instead - people are diverse, computermusicians have either to be "educated"/experienced/interested enough to have control about some internals of a Software to be capable to install/configure/run LINUX as they are to tune WinXP as well - or they need to be rich enough, to pay someone who is that "educated"

2.)AFAIK one of those "Patents" is the one for the progressbar - just one example that points to the fact, that Softwarepatents are utter nonsense - they cannot be enforced in Europe - this good and sane rule is under attack nowadays, but the battle is definately not over and if we can manage to keep this freedom of creativity, it will stay for long and have a significant influence on countries, that still cripple their softwaredevelopers by having softwarepatents.

3.) no matter how hard i try to find free or even low-cost musicsoftware for WinXP, i do not find replacements for ARDOUR, JACK, SND, Rosegarden, MUSE and a dozen others that would not be more than 500,- Euros/USD. There is decent Freeware and even GPL-free Software for WinXP and there are great Apps to pay for but if i would not want to pay more than about 3 Months-incomes, i would not have something, that even comes close to that, i use to work with in LINUX for free...

AND: LINUX-Audiosoft is different.The whole environment has maximum flexibility and is configurable in a way, that no propriatary SW offers - send a stream through 12 different FX-Processorapps and change a Synth-filter with the result - no Problem with jackapps.

[pHz]

AND: LINUX-Audiosoft is different.The whole environment has maximum flexibility and is configurable in a way, that no propriatary SW offers - send a stream through 12 different FX-Processorapps and change a Synth-filter with the result - no Problem with jackapps.

dont know enough about LINUX to comment generally but i need to take slight issue here ...

... what youre describing sounds exactly the sort of thing audiomulch ($50) or energyXT (E39) or bidule (free at the moment) excel at on windows so unless im misunderstanding what youre saying to claim LINUX audio apps are beyond windows ones in this respect is nonsense

slainte rob

[whyterabbyt]

What he's talking about (JACK) is probably closer to ReWire, Rob, in that any application supporting it can route audio to any other, or JACK can act as a plugin server/host.

It has fewer restrictions than ReWire, though, and is more flexible in various ways.

[fake]

zettberlin, great idea and thanks for you're offer.

I have a spare drive and I will be putting it on that but I'm not sure what version yet, probably Debian.
Doing music on Linux is very new as it is in its early stages and the more people use it the more it will gain ground.

So far, the only problem I have is the "Win modem", so I will now go out and buy a real one.

One question for now Is it possible to install a live cd? I have Knoppix and have dl'd the muse package.

Thanks

fake

[mtyas]

fake, Yes I installed a Knoppix on my Computer, worked perfectly.

But If you mainly want to use it for music, try a specific distribution like Agnula (Debian)http://www.agnula.org/ or Turn-Key Linux audio http://tkla.sourceforge.net/home.html or even Dyne:bolic http://dynebolic.org/ look into them they all have something intresting

[pHz]

What he's talking about (JACK) is probably closer to ReWire, Rob, in that any application supporting it can route audio to any other, or JACK can act as a plugin server/host.
It has fewer restrictions than ReWire, though, and is more flexible in various ways.

thx for the info mate ... i see now that it IS slightly different ... more like an OS hosted version of tobybears mixbox then ???

slainte rob

[Cabinfever]

linux ! don't make me laugh. thats still for geeks, techno snobs, and political nutters who think microsoft is out to enslave the human race. wait two or three more years and lets talk again

[ambe]

...but microsoft is out to enslave the human race. not heard of palladium?

http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/feat ... diumwp.asp
http://www.epic.org/privacy/consumer/mi ... adium.html

[vista]

@whyterabbyt
Are you going to insist on the same things wrt the Mac, btw?

Great answer to my post,
so i take my cap off !

But i forgot to say:

I have MANDRAKE LINUX installed here on one PC, and i am very satisfied with it - but NOT FOR MUSICMAKING !

I don't want to spend time and
money to build up a second parallel
"subculture" only to play stereo.


I think KVR should be what
it is now: A place to get and share
VST + VSTi, and not an arena for
different OS. (today LINUX, tomorrow MAC, then BEOS or
perhaps OS2 ? - nice future for KVR)

If there are VST-specific OS-probs
these should be placed in the VST-thread !

[whyterabbyt]

vista quoth
I think KVR should be what
it is now: A place to get and share
VST + VSTi

Except that's NOT what KVR is.

Have a look at the banner. It says 'supporting open standard audio plugins. That includes DX and DXi, MAS, RTAS, and even LADSPA, whether you like it or not.


and not an arena for
different OS. (today LINUX, tomorrow MAC, then BEOS or
perhaps OS2 ? - nice future for KVR)

Yup, it is a nice future. Biodiversity is good. Monocultures are bad. More choice is good. More free stuff is good.

[jorgen]

Anyone else using slackware + dropline? So sweet

jorgen

[zettberlin]

@ fake:

Debian, Agnula, Demudi or CCRMA are perfectly well for doing sound in LIN, BUT: you need a fast, affordable Internetconnection for that, some 800 Megs need to be downloaded to start and about 500 / year to stay up to date (that is: to stay up regarding Soundapps, if one wants to do Graphics, Video, Typesetting also we talk about 3-4 Gigs) So maybe a boxed Distro like SUSE or MDK has some advantage. I sit here with dialup ISDN only so i fetch SUSE from a friend (LEGAL copies - welcome to GNU ) it takes a week to make it work as it should (ARDOUR is still tricky Synthstuff comes out of the box), but today i'm quite happy with it.

@ Cabinfever:

not completely wrong, only a (quite large) subset of Linaudio works as easily out of the box (see above) but if we talk about waiting: in 2-3 years Linaudio should be ready to be installed by everybody who is able to put a DVD in its drive, wait for 3 Months and get a realtimesystem able to record a Peter Gabriel - LP out of the Box by just reading some HOWTOEs 2-3 houres.