Waves Launches Creative Access - Poll

[gaggle of hermits]

I think the real interesting aspect will be to see how many live Sound Engineers - who's sound is reliant on their SoundGrid processing - will explore alternatives or be forced into subscribing as a way of maintaining stability.

it's interesting: the core app is still WUPed, but the plugins for it are sub-only.

i think inertia will be a big part of transition. in the short term, loss of the second licence for WUPed plugins may force them to buy some subs. but i can see all sorts of authorisation problems down the line for users – i think Waves' own advice is buy annual to prevent it phoning home too often which is just hilarious. i think a lot of users will look seriously at how they can replace the Waves plugins even if they don't ditch the core app. and i can see people looking a lot more seriously at other options where they wouldn't felt the need to bother before.

i think it's that "i've been paying these people how much?" reaction that's going to knacker Waves because the sub forces them to confront the cost-benefit of paying out. the subs cost for live mixers might just be in the noise if they don't have many rigs running – what's $250 per year vs hardware rental etc? at the same time, the reliability issue of having software phone home will make them think twice.

[imrae]

Last thing we needed was yet another Waves thread. Won’t be voting in the poll.

But as others have said, the lunch that the thread promises might have made me forgive Waves but is sadly missing.

See you all in the main threads and over on Waves forum, seems like the responses over there are a far better measure of views rather than a KVR poll.

I had a look at the thread on the Waves forum and, incredibly, the users there are even more negative than the poll results here. There really is nobody defending this...

[revvy]

Last thing we needed was yet another Waves thread. Won’t be voting in the poll.

But as others have said, the lunch that the thread promises might have made me forgive Waves but is sadly missing.

See you all in the main threads and over on Waves forum, seems like the responses over there are a far better measure of views rather than a KVR poll.

I had a look at the thread on the Waves forum and, incredibly, the users there are even more negative than the poll results here. There really is nobody defending this...

I know, right?

That was my point basically. A KVR poll can have folks voting who don't really five a f**k either way and is pretty much guaranteed to dilute strong emotions. But that Waves forum, even after posts getting deleted, is absolutely brutal.

Love it.

I posted there the truth that I've asked Waves for a refund for plugins bought in the last couple of weeks. if Waves don't reply to me in the next 2 days I'm going to file a claim with PayPal.

[AdvancedFollower]

I used maybe 5 Waves plugins semi-regularly. Not going to suddenly start paying $25/month to keep using them when alternatives can be found.

You can still use them until they fail. How long? Nobody knows. At least a couple of years.

Yeah but I'd rather find replacements now than later, so that no project going forward contains any Waves plugins.

[serge]

Last thing we needed was yet another Waves thread. Won’t be voting in the poll.

But as others have said, the lunch that the thread promises might have made me forgive Waves but is sadly missing.

See you all in the main threads and over on Waves forum, seems like the responses over there are a far better measure of views rather than a KVR poll.

I had a look at the thread on the Waves forum and, incredibly, the users there are even more negative than the poll results here. There really is nobody defending this...

I know, right?

That was my point basically. A KVR poll can have folks voting who don't really five a f**k either way and is pretty much guaranteed to dilute strong emotions. But that Waves forum, even after posts getting deleted, is absolutely brutal.

Love it.

I posted there the truth that I've asked Waves for a refund for plugins bought in the last couple of weeks. if Waves don't reply to me in the next 2 days I'm going to file a claim with PayPal.

Firstly, I really appreciate everyone who took the time to vote in this thread!
Secondly, my apologies about the lack of "free lunch" for it.

Lastly, I'd like to assure everyone that I am in no way affiliated with Waves. Like many of you, I've been a loyal customer of Waves plugins for over 20 years and have built up a considerable collection. I'm also mostly up-to-date with my plugins, with only a few being below V14. My genuine curiosity about Waves' recent move has led me to create this poll in a non-Waves forum, hoping to gather diverse perspectives from both Waves users and non-users alike. While there are threads for venting, exploring alternatives, and discussing boycotts or legal actions, my intention for this thread is different. I sincerely hope to understand how Waves' latest offerings affect the plans of those who use their plugins and those who don't. I warmly invite you to share your thoughts and experiences, as it will help us all better understand the impact of these changes.

[jamcat]

My thoughts on it is I think Waves has been staring at the abyss for years now, and this is a final desperate move by a desperate company.

And I am sad to say, I hope it fails.

If doing this actually saves Waves from going under, that will only encourage more companies to follow suit. If it accelerates their demise, then it may serve as a cautionary tale to others who may be eyeing a subscription-only model.

For the sake of Western civilization, we do not want such an economic model to be successful.

[ralfrobert]

My thoughts: As I never fully went the Waves route, this does not seriously affect me. I've built my go-to environment with different tools (Acon Digital, Voxengo, Melda, Fabfilter, etc.) which all have licensing systems that suit me better. With the new plan and suspension of license sales, I think have put another nail in their coffin.

What have we seen until now? Very expensive transfers, WUP, Waves Shell, installation problems, lack of communication. To be fair, on the other hand: Excellent DSP, some unique plugins (Abbey Road series and others), top technical support if you really do not get it going, a one-stop-shop for plugins if you want them to be.

All this drama just isn't for me. I am doing support for a couple of desks, and some of them have Waves licenses ... which I will recommend to replace. We'll see ...

But this is just me. Very little drama, some action taken, absolutely no revolution on my side.

[osiris]

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/wa ... er-pack-ii

Trying to make up for lost revenue. This basic pack in 1999 contained 4 plugins and sold for @$491.00 or $368.00 to upgrade from V1. To put that in perspective, adjusted for inflation that equals $886.00 and $664.00 respectively.

[egelmett]

Just got an email from Waves - apparently they got hammered! Perpetual licenses will remain products they offer.

Thank you, Waves!

Still...your jank policy moves make me consider my future using your products.

I think they have some very useful plugins (NLS, NX, The Ren Series, API series, Abbey Road stuff) but these moves make me nervous about investing any further into their product lines.

[cryophonik]

Still...your jank policy moves make me consider my future using your products.

I think they have some very useful plugins (NLS, NX, The Ren Series, API series, Abbey Road stuff) but these moves make me nervous about investing any further into their product lines.

Same here. I have several plugins that I bought a long time ago (notably the RenMaxx and CLA compressors series) that I've used in countless projects. I'm glad to see that they've reconsidered their terrible decision, but I'm also not sure I'll invest in them ever again, but we'll see. Honestly, as much as I hate giving them any more money, I'll need to upgrade my computer at some point, so I'll need to either completely ween myself off of their plugins, find suitable replacements, match them in all of my unfinished projects, etc. The reality is, it's probably easier to just keep kicking that can down the road as far as I can and pay the WUP if/when it becomes a necessity for me.

[robotmonkey]

Last thing we needed was yet another Waves thread. Won’t be voting in the poll.

But as others have said, the lunch that the thread promises might have made me forgive Waves but is sadly missing.

See you all in the main threads and over on Waves forum, seems like the responses over there are a far better measure of views rather than a KVR poll.

I had a look at the thread on the Waves forum and, incredibly, the users there are even more negative than the poll results here. There really is nobody defending this...

Took a look at Waves forum. Man, Waves must have the worst most dumb and entitled and petulant customers I have ever seen. I guess Waves is damned if they do and damned if they don't.
I'm not even surprised that they came up with the subscription to all that dumb complaining about WUP. There are literally people who thought they have to pay WUP every year.

[plexuss]

[[snip] have the worst most dumb and entitled and petulant customers I have ever seen.

Not nearly as dumb and petulant as yourself as you have demonstrated in your posts. Projection in it's purest form.

Waves alternatives (community generated) https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

[robotmonkey]

[[snip] have the worst most dumb and entitled and petulant customers I have ever seen.

Not nearly as dumb and petulant as yourself as you have demonstrated in your posts. Projection in it's purest form.

Maybe. At least I have never had problem with figuring out how to install Waves plugins nor figuring out what WUP is about. And surely I would not demand company give me good deals because economy is going down the drain.

[egelmett]

[snip] have the worst most dumb and entitled and petulant customers I have ever seen.

Not petulant! Trapped! You see, if you've invested into several of their bundles, and find you only use a few, paying for WUP on only those products to update for compatibility's sake, is fair. But, to be forced into a subscription, by which, individual licenses are no longer honored...and then the thought of past projects being held captive to that subscription...no, petulant is not how I would describe the reaction.

At least with WUP only, if I need to continue to use a plugin and need an update, I'm only paying for what I need. I already paid for the plugin or bundle at one point, as well. I completely see the need for ongoing revenue, and with WUP, it's not a guarantee anyone would actually update - so, it's an inconsistent revenue stream. But, to just hack off WUP for those of comfortable with that arrangement justified the 'petulant' responses! Many companies simply bolted on a subscription service, not dropped one for another. Additional revenue streams can help, but I like many others, didn't like the 'all or nothing' scenario. Again, any past project is subject to subscription with Waves. And sure, if I pay for WUP yearly it's about the same amount for me...but it would be my choice not to upgrade but still get to load my past projects.

Their WCA approach, as first rolled out, lacked any acknowledgement of appreciation to past customers - or even benefit for converted usage. It traps you, basically. Looking at RolandCloud, at least they offer some form of ownership for continued subscription that would be considered 'tangible', i.e. the Loyalty Program where after so much time, one owns the rights to usage without continued payments. Wave had no such nuance to thier program.

I say, Waves...cut expenses, not customers, if you're feeling the pinch like we all are.

[robotmonkey]

[snip] have the worst most dumb and entitled and petulant customers I have ever seen.

Not petulant! Trapped! You see, if you've invested into several of their bundles, and find you only use a few, paying for WUP on only those products to update for compatibility's sake, is fair. But, to be forced into a subscription, by which, individual licenses are no longer honored...and then the thought of past projects being held captive to that subscription...no, petulant is not how I would describe the reaction.

I get it. As a Waves user I'm not happy either how they have handled the situation. The whole debacle reeks of financial desperation.

But some of the garbage posted in Waves forum (and to a lesser extent usually in Waves threads) is just on another level. It kind of makes me feel sad for Waves, and especially for their customer support. I imagine people like this are a huge drain on their support resources on a daily basis.