KVR Audio

jmh · Post by **jmh** » Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:48 am

You people are paranoid beyond reason...

Just because it uses PACE doesn't mean it will install unwanted drivers, just because it's PACE doesn't mean your machine will start misbehaving... and so on.

PACE has several levels of protection, and this is case it's nothing more than the usual challenge/response protection that does nothing else than writes a pile of stuff into registry and uses that as a part of the protection. Granted, it writes a lot of stuff indeed, but hardly anything that will bluescreeen your machine

Similar protections have been used in so many plugins but I don't see people getting their panties in a bunch over those - but every time PACE is mentioned people jump the gun without even knowing what they're talking about =)

What's the magical procedure how it would even install those infamous iLok drivers? Are those somehow embedded in the plugin? No. Does it secretly load them from the net? No - that kind of stuff wouldn't even work on machines with no direct connection, you know...

So quit being so melodramatic, dare I even say stupid with your lawsuit garbage and get over it

It's actually a damn nice reverb, the more I play with the demo the more I like it.

Regards and snickering,

JMH

scandipandy · Post by **scandipandy** » Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:59 am

mauseoleum wrote: proposal:
would it be possible to label plugs in kvr database which interfere with end user's systems in unwanted way without informing - with a label *DANGER!* and a brief description WHAT will happen if it is instantiated on user's system?

First entry into Kvr labeled database:
Microsoft Windows XP *DANGER!*
If instantiated on a system with internet connection one of many worm/virus will attack and infect the machine.

About the PACE.
When I installed the reverb it TOLD me LOUD and CLEAR that it will use PACE. Its sad but to all of you who dont want/cant use pace I must tell you, its a really great sounding room reverb, there is something about it that makes my ears happy.

aMUSEd · Post by **aMUSEd** » Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:59 am

Don't be so arrogant JMH. Initially my first thought was this is just a dll so what harm can it do but others seem already to have found it has caused instabilities (how I don't know). The point is we are finding out and feeling our way - we are not experts on PACE - but we have a right to be concerned if a plugin may be installing stuff without our consent so quit the "I know better and you lot are just dumb" stuff OK? If you want to help then help - if all you want is to demonstrate your percieved "superiority" then get a life.

and we know it sounds nice too.

aMUSEd · Post by **aMUSEd** » Sat Oct 16, 2004 11:17 am

scandipandy wrote: About the PACE.
When I installed the reverb it TOLD me LOUD and CLEAR that it will use PACE.

All it did when I installed it was ask if I wanted to run a demo or buy it and input a serial (by which I assumed challenge and response). It has PACE written in the corner of that box but as has been stated PACE have several types of protection and if it is just standard challenge response then I can assume it has not installed anything else on my system and leave it there. The problem would be if it has made modifications that may affect my system and/or other software - which DevonB's post and a couple of other's may indicate could be the case. I hope it isn't but if it is then I do think we would have a right to be angry. But we need facts - not speculation - lets hear some reasurrances from the company and I'll be happier.

mauseoleum · Post by **mauseoleum** » Sat Oct 16, 2004 11:21 am

who's being paranoid?

where's a trace of un-informed paranoic behavior in this thread?

case is : if you OPT NOT TO have what YOU DON'T WANT to have, and if a product(or what-ever) doesn't inform you BEFORE it actually got instantiated WHERE YOU DON'T want to ...

i'll leave logical conclusions to you, dear expert(s) who obviously know better. to me it is, somebody is covertly inflating something where you don't want it to be.

waves, otoh DO give you a glance of their mechanism, as well does Discreet products etc. ...

oh, nevermind, maybe cleanup version will surface somewhere from depths of internet undergroud ...
mother russia, where are you

p.s.: but of course i'm referring to a well known systers of mercy hitsong.

jmh · Post by **jmh** » Sat Oct 16, 2004 12:12 pm

aMUSEd wrote:Don't be so arrogant JMH. Initially my first thought was this is just a dll so what harm can it do but others seem already to have found it has caused instabilities (how I don't know). The point is we are finding out and feeling our way - we are not experts on PACE - but we have a right to be concerned if a plugin may be installing stuff without our consent so quit the "I know better and you lot are just dumb" stuff OK? If you want to help then help - if all you want is to demonstrate your percieved "superiority" then get a life.

and we know it sounds nice too.

First of all, I did explain what the plugin does. Ok, calling people "stupid" was going too far, apologies for that.

Second, what DevonB wrote wasn't about this plugin, but something else using PACE with the dreaded iLok drivers which are notorious for their misbehavior, though people have written that most of the problems are gone now.

Third, the plugin doesn't install anything extra, as already explained.

What kind of help do you require? I'm al for helping people out, so how can I help in this matter? I'm simply trying to explain how it works (I can go into detail about the protection, not in the sense how it can be defeated

) since I'm concerned as well about anything that says PACE.

There's no "superiority" to perceive really. My comments regarding paranoia are based on the reactions expressed in this thread such as "it installed PACE on my computer", which I tried correcting. Once again, calling anyone names was too much, and once again apologies for that - I guess I just got tired of seeing the same old PACE stuff being discussed without being based on anything else than hearsay and speculation. Same goes for the "arrogance" - although I'm curious to hear why you want to label me with these terms after I did explain what's going on with the plugin

Still it does sound nice but this is unacceptable not even to inform users of what it is doing - grounds for a lawsuit even?

Without any remarks then, no, no grounds whatsoever for a lawsuit. Standard protection on a commercial piece of software, that's all.

oh.. lucky me that i stumbled in this post befor einstalling then! even tho i have been looking forward to this verb, i cant risk anything like this.

Go ahead. It won't break your computer

Simple explanation, it was the iLok drivers that caused a lot of grievance for people, however this one doesn't use iLok nor its drivers.

Since it's installing something you're not explicitly asking for (unlike, say, Waves which at least tells you what it's doing), it probably falls under the same remit as Spyware/Adware and is verging on being illegal.

I'm afraid it's not true either. See above.

So just instantiating the .dll installs PACE?

Yes, the protection naturally kicks in. However, nothing extra is being installed, just a great number of registry entries are written and read. They're application specific though so it would be rather surprising if something else started misbehaving because of this.

case is : if you OPT NOT TO have what YOU DON'T WANT to have, and if a product(or what-ever) doesn't inform you BEFORE it actually got instantiated WHERE YOU DON'T want to ...

i'll leave logical conclusions to you, dear expert(s) who obviously know better. to me it is, somebody is covertly inflating something where you don't want it to be.

But it's nothing more than a standard protection that's on so many other plugins as well. It's not hidden (the big PACE logo should be clear indication), it doesn't install anything extra.

Sorry if I still sound arrogant or superior in any way, that's now what I'm trying to accomplish. I'm trying to clear some misconseptions so that people can test the plugin without fear of something bad happening. The biggest misconseption being that PACE is nothing but a bunch of problems waiting to arise. As already explained, they offer several levels of protection and in this case it's iLok free.

My personal feelings on PACE is that it used to be something to avoid at all cost, and I haven't entirely changed my mind about it yet. When I noticed the PACE thing on this, I went ahead and read about their products on their website, and then ran a simple registry monitoring app (regmon from Sysinternals) just to see if there's anything going on behind the curtains.

I hope this clarified things, and my apologies are accepted... and that I provided something akin to help to this thread

And I sincerely hope they'll port their other plugins to VST too, they're extremely good sounding stuff.

Regards,

JMH

griels · Post by **griels** » Sat Oct 16, 2004 12:15 pm

jmh wrote: What's the magical procedure how it would even install those infamous iLok drivers? Are those somehow embedded in the plugin? No. Does it secretly load them from the net? No - that kind of stuff wouldn't even work on machines with no direct connection, you know...

My thoughts exactly. Local user registry settings are often changed by plugins, but I've never heard of a plugin dll installing a driver just by being instantiated. Has anyone tried instantiating this plugin on a limited user account?

aMUSEd · Post by **aMUSEd** » Sat Oct 16, 2004 12:21 pm

jmh wrote: I hope this clarified things, and my apologies are accepted... and that I provided something akin to help to this thread

No problem

Thanks for the clarification and help.

griels · Post by **griels** » Sat Oct 16, 2004 12:30 pm

I just set up a limited user account, launched Minihost on said account, and instantiated the reverb just fine. It added the PACE entries to the HKEY_CURRENT_USER branch of the registry, but, serious voodoo aside, it cannot have installed any drivers or system-wide changes.

The registry changes alone makes me uneasy about instantiating it on my main account, but it does *sound* great. Very smooth tails and actually sounds like a room.

Teksonik · Post by **Teksonik** » Sat Oct 16, 2004 12:57 pm

Pace arguments aside,I'm not paying $200.00 for a reverb. I like Ambience (yes I donated) and Kjaerhus Classic reverb just fine. But I don't really use a lot of reverb so that's just my two cents worth.

multree · Post by **multree** » Sat Oct 16, 2004 1:25 pm

jmh thanks for clearing that up... that was what I thought, too.... so PACE doesn't directly mean iLok...

multree · Post by **multree** » Sat Oct 16, 2004 1:26 pm

vtd wrote:1. What's the difference between the PT version and the VST version?

2. How does this reverb compare to other reverbs? What are its strengths and weaknesses - sort of afraid to try it considering the PACE

1. it's only one of the three algo's StereoRoom
2. It sounds sweet... and with sweet I mean sweeeeeeeeeeeeet

op519 · Post by **op519** » Sat Oct 16, 2004 1:39 pm

I have to wonder if certain developers (ones who decide to use pace) are stupid. All PACE provides you with is false security and some upset potential customers.

This thing is already cracked.

How much did Princeton pay Pace Anti Piracy to "protect" their vst? And at what cost to potential customers.

MickGael · Post by **MickGael** » Sat Oct 16, 2004 2:19 pm

Well, the choice is made easier for me by the fact that it won't wort (for me at least) in Cubase SX.

Works fine in Chaniner, but not in SX.

Go figure.

DevonB · Post by **DevonB** » Sat Oct 16, 2004 2:24 pm

jmh wrote:You people are paranoid beyond reason...

Just because it uses PACE doesn't mean it will install unwanted drivers, just because it's PACE doesn't mean your machine will start misbehaving... and so on.

If you can convince my machine to not bluescreen with references to the iLok driver (yes, Pace and iLok are one and the same), I'd be happy. It was funny though, as when I deleted the iLok driver off my system, the crashing stopped after that, and that was months ago.

Devon

Princeton Digital - REVERB