KVR Audio

shamann · Post by **shamann** » Wed Oct 20, 2004 9:47 pm

Guybrush wrote:Think about it... why is it called "pop" music? It's a short term for "popular" music... Thats because it's easy to listen too and many people likes it (and no.. of course not everyone) - therefor it is popular.

Oddly enough, these days most things are popular before anyone but industry hacks have had a chance to hear it. Popularity is paid for in advance, why leave something as important as success in the hands of the unknown customer.

To paraphrase xoxos from earlier in the thread (and to quote Joe Jackson, who could very well be xoxos):

Look Sharp!

pHz · Post by **pHz** » Wed Oct 20, 2004 9:53 pm

Guybrush wrote:Just had to share my opinion.
Maybe i am stupid and "wrong", but i like "pop" music (because i guess that's what your are talking about).
I am not so far off a teenager (i'm 17 too) and I do like many - not all of course - pop songs that i hear on commercial radiostations and MTV. Am I a sorry victim of the big bad labels aggressive marketing campains or do i just want to fit in the crowd and listen to what everyone else listens too?
I don't think so.
Think about it... why is it called "pop" music? It's a short term for "popular" music... Thats because it's easy to listen too and many people likes it (and no.. of course not everyone) - therefor it is popular.
I am a very musically interessted person and i like almost all music genres from rock/pop to trance to jazz to fusion to funk to classical to emocore and pretty much everything else. I go a musical school here in sweden and i compose with my computer and play 3 normal instruments.
Still i love great pop songs.
The two people i look up to most and get inspiration from are Max martin and Denniz Pop (Rip), two of the geniouses behind many of BSB's most succesfull hits, Britney's first hits, some N*sync songs and many more artist. I adore them because the can create music that the majority of people likes (again of course not all, but look at these artists sales and you get the picture).
So thats just my view... I love pop music because of the music - not couse some big corporation has brainwashed me into liking it.
Cheers

not talking down to you mate ...

... but i teach media studies (yeah - i know ... ) to people your age ...

... you REALLY do need to look a little deeper - yes it might be REALLY well CRAFTED music that is TECHNICALLY well-made ...

... but what is the driving force behind that craft and technical skill ???

(to go properly deep though - once you know the answer to that - does it actually matter ???)

slainte

rob

donkey tugger · Post by **donkey tugger** » Wed Oct 20, 2004 9:57 pm

shamann wrote: (and to quote Joe Jackson, who could very well be xoxos):

Look Sharp!

Hmmmmm, you may be on to something...

shamann · Post by **shamann** » Wed Oct 20, 2004 9:59 pm

donkey tugger wrote:Hmmmmm, you may be on to something...

I seem to have wet myself.

xoxos · Post by **xoxos** » Wed Oct 20, 2004 10:35 pm

the box says "see through space with a magic eye"

Steven West · Post by **Steven West** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 12:48 am

I like what GuyBrush and Rob says too (aside from Tuggers classic guerilla picture placements!

)

Yes, I too am one of the biggest fans of older 'pop' music. Petula Clarke, The Archies, The Monkees, Sam The Sham, Mongo Jerry - you name them. (everyones saying WTF?) But as 'classy', 'well produced', or just 'one hit flukes' these songs were at the time - there was a 'dignity' about it all. Including The Monkees and Burt Bacharach - he was a talented songwriter, and The Monkees were likeable young men.
The first 'boy band' if you will? Mike Nesmith and/or Peter Tork hated being 'in the machine', while Davey Jones (causing a young brit to change his name to Bowie to not intrude) and Mickey Dolenz thought 'if we're IN THE MACHINE already, why don't we just go with it? They should be proud to be so lucky!'

Many successes came to be in the early days of MTV and Much Music as well. I never would've learned about Laurie Anderson if it wasn't for The New Music - which predates both stations by a few years. Ontario's publicly funded station TVO (ala PBS) even had a show in the early/mid 70's called 'Night Music' which had performers perform live on a 'closed stage' and had visual effects and crap applied during their performances - the first 'videos' being made! Nash The Slash, Bob Segarini, Murray McLaughlin - a whole variety of people and bands would be on.

But this 'constrictive' form video has taken on now is really sad. Folks like Tiny Tim and Donovan seemed to come 'out of nowhere'. Nowadays, Britney Spears and William Hung are rejects of Star Search and American Idol. Is it because they came up with an infectious ditty called 'Tiptoe Through The Tulips' or 'Mellow Yellow'? No, it's because Britney and William kept doing cover songs till someone 'noticed them at the right place and time'.
Yeah, same can be said for Tiny Tim or Donovan I guess - but those guys were truely 'unique' in their own right. Britney and William and Kelly and Ricky are so easily transferable to Christina and Clay, Lisa Marie and Enrique. It's like power generators switching grids for cities. You don't hardly notice the flicker of the light - but one huge generator on the east side just threw it to the west side to carry on. And that to me is what's happening with videos and 'pop' people - maintain the style and look, the format and delivery. If Mariah falls out, we'll seriously look into Mandy Moore. If Britney's on the skids, get Hillary Duff on the launch pad. They aren't people anymore, they're just names to do a job. Some are okay with that, but the sheer lose of 'dignity' to actually contribute anything worthwhile without being 'overly produced and choreographed' is what gets me.

I like the internet... Because I'm ugly and I don't dance.

mauseoleum · Post by **mauseoleum** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 12:59 am

and to quote Joe Jackson

19 forever.

Steven West · Post by **Steven West** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 2:24 am

It was Joe Jackson that had the best analogy (pardon the pun beforehand...)

"Writing a good song is like having a shit"

Which I interpret that you dread it until you reach the abode, have difficulties and maybe some pain pushing it out, have that brief moment of near orgasmic relief afterwards, repulsed by the fact you have to clean yourself up after it. (and some don't!), flush and move on.

I can relate... Hey Joe, pull my finger.

druid · Post by **druid** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 2:40 am

Hi, I haven't posted on K-v-R before (I think?).

While I agree to some extent, you are placing far too much emphasis on rap. I don't mind rap, but only a select few artists. I don't like the popularity of them either, I like listening to them myself, but I dislike going outside and hearing them being played everywhere. So as for the huge music machines, they annoy me.

But I kind of like the music I listen to being low key (mostly industrial), it makes it more personal to me and more unique, if I were to go outside and hear SOME (only some, industrial is also fraught with similar artists that aren't that unique) of the unique artists I like, I might not like them as much.

Anyway, that's personal taste I suppose. You shouldn't be focussing on rap so much (though that's a big genre right now true). What about RNB (though you probably place them in the same category, and fair enough), and what about all the pop stuff? Britney Spears, N'Sync, Backstreet Boys? I find them similarly annoying, they all sound the same as well. As much as I liked the first Linkin Park album, the second album was so similar to the first I felt like it was a redux of the first!

But an artist being popular also can sometimes make people who feel that way towards popular music not like something they might appreciate if it weren't so popular. I liked Linkin Park before they got popular, I found I didn't like them as much when highschool girls were singing "One Step Closer" at bus stops I was at. When all the parties were playing Eminem, I found myself disliking his music whereas previously I had liked it.

As for music videos, I actually don't like any music videos. Well, there have been a couple of cool ones, but I like the music to stand for itself. Often I find that if I see videos for music I like, they are either too abstract to make sense of and not interesting to watch, or they ruin the image in my head of what the music meant or whatever.

That's my somewhat-counter-but-not-really-counter-rant.

jones-y · Post by **jones-y** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 3:11 am

you are placing far too much emphasis on rap

who?

Chickenman · Post by **Chickenman** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 3:37 am

I think you should all stop whinging and buy the latest Shania Twain cd

To be honest, I'm not such a big fan of "commercial" music (which is what we're talking about here? "pop" is a style...or genre (even though I hate generalisations))

In New Zealand we're quite lucky to have a lot of strange people, our most "commercial" and successful groups are all good musicians (Finn brothers) and mental as well. We are slowly heading towards the crappy "commercial" scene though.

I always make a point of sitting down and listening to new artists before I write them off though, there is some good production going on out there.

Steven West · Post by **Steven West** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 3:48 am

That's true too. I must admit, I do like the production in Britney's hits, and I do like the tones and hits alot of Hip Hop folks use. It's such a shame though that the players and producers are by and large unsung these days. Maybe Brian Eno or Daniel Lanois should produce Dirty Ol' Bastard or Michelle Branch and see where that takes them?

Chickenman · Post by **Chickenman** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 3:51 am

mmmmmmmmmmm... Britney.

BONES · Post by **BONES** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 4:47 am

Interesting. I think I am far more likely to hear something I like on the radio than I am on the f**king Internet. Seriously, I have been listening to mp3's for 5 or 6 years and I have heard exactly two songs that I would pay money for. At least when I go to a record shop I can look at the covers and get some idea of what may be decent. I have no idea how you guys find stuff you like around here.

OTOH, at least its a little better for us than it is for your average school kid. The reason they are targeted is because they can more easily be converted to toe the corporate line. Their minds are malleable and their opportunity to be exposed to anything good is comparatively restricted. I despair for young people today who no longer have access to the kinds of aural stimuli that I was fortunate enough to have during the late 70's and early 80's.

As for hip-hop, over here we have this hideous westy version called skip-hop. I think it is the single most cringe-worthy cultural abberation I have ever come across. What I really fail to understand is how well-off white aussie kids can identify with any of it. in the end I think its just easier than getting rock band together.

TVD · Post by **TVD** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 5:17 am

mjones4th wrote:ummmmmm.......

I'm not Lady J

Who is she anyway?

A white female (so she said) that I personally consider black to the bone.

And seriously, she is an up and coming hip-hop/R&B producer in her own right. I also notice that most of the male members of this very KVR community can't always win in an arguement with this woman at all (especially in politics and hip-hop styles). But I think she's good people.

music being held back by big corporations