Dune 3 Genetics - why is nobody talking about it? (including Synapse Audio!)

[MrJubbly]

It's not very well implemented. Not sure if it's the same in Dune, but in The Legend the function is hidden in a menu, it's not even obvious it exists.

Probably why I've never heard of or used it before. I just had a look in Dune 3 and like you said, there's the 'Open Genetics' option under the Menu button.

I'll probably never use it though. I tried the Spire random/A.I. preset generator thing they recently added and it was the first and probably last time, I'd ever bother with it (more bother than it's worth).

As an aside, I've never liked Dune 3's new preset manager screen, since they recently added it (I find it kinda clunky and awkwardly jarring, in sharp contrast to the rest of that very well-designed synth). It just feels tacked on last minute, and poorly so. They should redesign it and make it better.

For random preset generator synths, I prefer Synplant 2. It's very easy to get something unexpected, yet still very usable. Or to make minor tweaks to tame some stranger generated results.

[Chockychallenge]

MrJubbly, you're missing out if you don't at least try Genetics. What has Spire's AI got to do with Synapse Audio Genetics? Just because Spire's doesn't produce good results (or so people are saying), I know that Genetics in Dune 3 works, really well indeed. You're dismissing it and suggesting that Synplant 2 is better, without even trying it!

[Chockychallenge]

patch "breeding" has been used in lots of stuff over the years. I don't know why they wouldn't mention it in their promo materials but you found it and others probably have/ will also.

Sure, but it's crazy that they don't even mention it on the website. Wouldn't it be easier to find these things if they weren't hidden, and never even mentioned on the developer's website?

[Chockychallenge]

I’ve never used it, but I imagine it could occasionally yield good results.

I'm sorry that I haven't had time to do a demo of some of the pad presets I made with Genetics, I'll try to find time tomorrow. Genetics yields good results about one in three to one in five goes, it's that good. By good results, I mean patches you want to save and use, just as good as the source patches.

[seafire]

If you don't code your own synths and OS, and build your own hardware, you need to shut your mouth now!

Hi Tek

[pandafish]

For those who don’t use Dune, Dillon Bastan’s Natural Selection P is a Max4Live wrapper that allows you to take a similar approach in Ableton for any synth with automatable parameters.

[Caine123]

For those who don’t use Dune, Dillon Bastan’s Natural Selection P is a Max4Live wrapper that allows you to take a similar approach in Ableton for any synth with automatable parameters.

did you try it with non-Ableton vsts?

[pandafish]

For those who don’t use Dune, Dillon Bastan’s Natural Selection P is a Max4Live wrapper that allows you to take a similar approach in Ableton for any synth with automatable parameters.

did you try it with non-Ableton vsts?

It uses the Ableton automation system so it can mutate any external VST parameters exposed by the “configure” process.

You can also mutate an entire chain of external VSTs if they are racked together with parameters exposed. I just built a chain of the Arturia MS20, Coldfire, and space echo that sounded wild.

[Ah_Dziz]

Unrelated to genetics, is there a sale on dune.... For Christmas?

[whassup]

For those who don’t use Dune, Dillon Bastan’s Natural Selection P is a Max4Live wrapper that allows you to take a similar approach in Ableton for any synth with automatable parameters.

I would like to have this functionality as a plugin in Reaper.

[c0nsilience]

Most of the Tone 2 synths have a randomization feature as well. It works really well in Warlock to generate some quick inspiration. Genetics in Dune 3 is definitely a sleeper feature.

[twal]

I love Dune. Genetics is truly amazing and way better than other randomization features. I can tame Dune better now and find it fantastic to use, and has stunning sound quality. After moving to other synths for design, and coming back I just find it interesting to use and more producers should use the layers in simple but effective ways.

[Wmp198333335x]

for me, it's the most important feature ever implemented on a synth

For me it's the most utterly worthless feature ever added to any synth.

Not learning how to program your synths is like not learning how to tune your guitar or how to change strings on it without help.

Learning to make your own patches allows you to form your own style and can be quite rewarding. Starting at INIT then ending up with a great sounding patch is very satisfying. As someone who has created over 1,000 patches for DUNE 3 I can tell you beyond a shadow of a doubt that it's not rocket science. All you need is to have a little imagination and to put the time into learning....the same things you also need to create music.

How do you think those patches you use in Genetics came about? That's right, someone learned how to make them.

But the Genetics feature already exists in DUNE 3 so people are free to use it if they wish and more creative users are free to ignore it and that's a win win.

Now I realize my comment will generate a storm of dissent especially from KVR's resident reprobate so I won't bother coming back to this thread and won't read any responses. Just remember that if you use crutches you'll never learn to walk without them......

Why would you get sh** for that comment? Not trying to be facetious, I'm genuinely curious... As i feel the same way.

This shift to having tools/scripts/entire plugs dedicated to randomly generating, telling you chords to play (chords, hRmony and melody dont work like that: its based on tension and release, which is derived from the relationships between intervals. Its NOT "this chord symbol looks cool, lets try that) and my personal most hated; using other peoples melodies for your works.

I totally understand tools breaking up your stale work flow: as s good piano player, i know the purpose of an ARP is NOT just playing an arpeggio with consistent velocity and rhythm. Its about stunbling upon something your hands wouldnt think to play. I get all that, i dig MOST of it, but at a certain point i ask myself if people utilizing this stuff should be calling themwelves musicians. Like, the process of writing the music snd the challenge of making it compelling but also accessble is WHY i got into music. The journey of creating the end piece is the real reward. Thats the kind of thing that reeled me in 20 years ago; YOU created an original piece of ART.

The idea of using someone else's melodic sample - which is almost humorous in the same way a paint by numbers book is - and then being ok with still calling it YOUR so g (or beat kr jingle whatever the case may be) is, well, downright insulting. At this point youre a curator at best. I was tempted to say arranger, but i that would be insulting to the Quincy Jones's or Duke Ellingtons or Dr Dre's of the world

[Wmp198333335x]

I like the term "patch breeding" for this kind of feature

Yes I understand that learning how to program synth patches yourself is really worth it. But I also found it interesting to breed / generate patches and just curate them (with some minor adjustment) into a soundset. My problem is, when I create patches from scratch, I tend to fall into similar patterns. Starting with random starting points can bring you into directions you wouldn't have gone naturally.

Here's a soundset I created with patch breeding / randomization. Did not really spend much time, maybe 1 day total incl. creating the demo track:

I totally get the dilemma of falling into similar patterns any why some of these tools fill that niche.

My problem with it, though, is that its being offered to us in such a way that doesnt suggest it as a diversion from our own tendancies but rather as a quick way to write/finish/release a trendy piece of music. "You wanna be a youtube Trap producer and cook up some fire beats in the style of Drake? This plugin is just 1 button, no keys, no piano roll, no ADSR. All you need to do is generate, throw a pRoDuCeR TaG on it, then start learning about the music biz"

At the risk of sounding stuck in the past, this shit is insulting to those of us who enjoy the craft and have put in the time. The silver lining however is that people who sre just hopping on a band wagon will never be a competitive threat to those of us who put our soul into this.

Like those pre generated samples. I would never discourage someone doing music, would never trample on someones dreams, but those patches are to my oatches as christian rock is to pink floyd.

[Vortifex]

Eh, I think randomizers can be useful for creating happy accidents or just something to spark inspiration when you're in a slump.