What makes music great - Plugins and Techniques

[fisherKing]

With my addition of one word, i would mostly agree. There IS tons of good, new music out there but it's swamped by crap.

really, tho, how is that different from any other era? i'd suggest that the scale has changed, ie from thousands of songs a year to millions, but the percentage of 'great music' (and, to be fair, that plays differently for all of us) is still similarly tiny...

That is exactly my point when i say swamped. As you say, the scale has changed , exponentially i would add. When i was younger and went to shows in the City every night, listened to WFMU, WKCR, WNEW, WBGO, the amount of music i really liked was a fairly high percentage of what i was exposed to. And i was extremely fortunate to have that large of an exposure. How does some kid (of any age) find the stuff that moves them to the level of a jimi hendrix or syd barett era PF? It's like the proverbial needle in a haystack. I have a network of friends and they tell me about stuff i'd like. I hear a lot of cool stuff here in the music cafe, on that other VI forum, then follow up on similar musics, a large network of fellow noisemaker friends from years of networking, tape trading, playing live, and bandcamp and soundcloud accounts.
My 18 yr old friend doesn't. He has told me that most of his friends don't really care that much to dig up music, they "listen" to the pop pablum on YT, Spotify, etc. They don't really listen according to him- which checks perfectly with my interactions and observations and second hand accounts of most teenagers. It's mostly just background noise. Kids don't have access to shelves of LP owned by their young stepfather, crates of LPs from a older brother who went off to Uni, and more LPs and later CDs, owned by their jazz drummer new bandmates. They can't even read the liner notes on a physical cardboard LP and follow up on musicians listed (which is how i discovered Brian Eno, which then led to hundreds of other artists.

more TL:DR old guy noise

all i'm getting here is that you're in that 'in my day, things were better' place, and if that works for you, am glad for you.

but any human being who is, for example, 17, lives in the moment they live in, and their pop culture matters. and your single 18-year-old friend is one person.

personally, i believe that the moment that matters the most is the current one, and i'd rather be listening to geese, or turnstile, than, say, the doors or green day. just my opinions, of course

[jamcat]

Their pop culture matters to them. But their pop culture doesn't revolve around music.

It's just like pop culture used to be all about cars, too. And sex. It was all about music, cars, and sex. Now the kids don't have any interest in any of those things. So if you're still all about music, cars, or sex, then times in fact were better back in the day.

[Uncle E]

personally, i believe that the moment that matters the most is the current one, and i'd rather be listening to geese, or turnstile, than, say, the doors or green day. just my opinions, of course

The Doors and Green Day were overrated even when they were contemporary.

[CrystalWizard]

That is exactly my point when i say swamped. As you say, the scale has changed , exponentially i would add.I

all i'm getting here is that you're in that 'in my day, things were better' place, and if that works for you, am glad for you.

Missed this part of my post?

i have a network of friends and they tell me about stuff i'd like. I hear a lot of cool stuff here in the music cafe, on that other VI forum, then follow up on similar musics, a large network of fellow noisemaker friends from years of networking, tape trading, playing live, and bandcamp and soundcloud accounts.

Listening to something new called Mercury while i type this.

fisherKing-- but any human being who is, for example, 17, lives in the moment they live in, and their pop culture matters. and your single 18-year-old friend is one person.

And missed this part?

...which checks perfectly with my interactions and observations and second hand accounts of most teenagers.

All three ex lovers/best friends are teachers, for about five months of weekends i go to festivals, faires, and concerts where i hang with kids (of all ages). So, no, not one single teenager.

Their pop culture matters to them. But their pop culture doesn't revolve around music.

It's just like pop culture used to be all about cars, too. And sex. It was all about music, cars, and sex. Now the kids don't have any interest in any of those things. So if you're still all about music, cars, or sex, then times in fact were better back in the day.

Exactly what i meant when i posted "Sex, drugs, and rock n roll, and driving."

fisherKing --personally, i believe that the moment that matters the most is the current one, and i'd rather be listening to geese, or turnstile, than, say, the doors or green day. just my opinions, of course

Totally agree, Now is the only time there really is.
If you are commenting about geese, the birds, i did hours of field recordings of geese two years ago, so much that i haven't even edited all. If your meaning the current band called Goose, i just listened, earlier tonight, to a live set from last year. I'm not familiar with turnstile but thanks for the tip, i will look it up. I do love The Doors (named after the Aldous Huxley book) but i don't actually listen to them much any more, i did go see Ray Manzarek and Robby Kreiger just before Ray died. Green Day, never did listen to them much. I was going to a lot of jazz and electronic music at the time (like Laurie Spiegel, David Torn, Mike Stern, John Zorn, Joe Zawinul. So many shows at The Kitchen, The Knitting Factory, The Bottom Line, in Soho).

KVRaudio, "I came here for an argument"
Will that be five minutes or a whole hour? (ok that's a back in the day, before my time joke)
cheers~

[billinder33]

Reality: Almost no one growing up today can afford a college education, house, new car, kids, and god have mercy if they have even the most minor interaction with the US healthcare system.

KVR: "Why aren't kids just like I was back in the day?"

[Cuauhtli]

Just to derail this topic even more: "There's no present. There's only the immediate future and the recent past". - George Carlin

[DCrown]

First recommendation for good music:
You need a good compressor.
2nd recommendation:
Use a compressor as little as possible,
rather focus on creating good music.

[CrystalWizard]

Reality: Almost no one growing up today can afford a college education, house, new car, kids, and god have mercy if they have even the most minor interaction with the US healthcare system.

KVR: "Why aren't kids just like I was back in the day?"

That is, sadly, quite true. Back to my soapbox it's why most anyone who isn't a bazillionaire turning 18-20 no longer has time or attention span for pop culture. It's the looming existential threat of all the above.

Just to derail this topic even more: "There's no present. There's only the immediate future and the recent past". - George Carlin

Hmm, i almost always defer to the genius of George Carlin (amazing observer of human behavoir), but a few million Tibetan Buddhist might not. Ram Das (former Harvard psychologist) said Be Here Now. Works for me. It's just "splitting hairs."
As for thread derailment, whoa, here on KVRaudio, shocked i am.

I think the OP question was answered quite well, plugins have nothing to do with great music. Great sounding music sure...
Technique, make whatever is a "great music" with creativity, talent, collaborators (if necessary) the help of producer (in the former sense of the word, somebody to help direct the whole process.)

First recommendation for good music:
You need a good compressor.
2nd recommendation:
Use a compressor as little as possible,
rather focus on creating good music.

See above about "good music." The only time i actually need compression is for tracking live instruments or samples i've made. I have very few sample sets (uh, except for NI Komplete 12) just Soniccoutre, Hollow Sun, and Orange Tree, all perfectly well compressed, thank you. I use some PSP for their saturation though. Is there any good compressors? jk! I don't understand using a compressor on synthesized sound since we have minute control over the dynamics. just imo.

[fisherKing]

Their pop culture matters to them. But their pop culture doesn't revolve around music.

It's just like pop culture used to be all about cars, too. And sex. It was all about music, cars, and sex. Now the kids don't have any interest in any of those things. So if you're still all about music, cars, or sex, then times in fact were better back in the day.

pure opinion, nothing more. you're imagining that you're speaking for all teens/20-somethings...

am willing to bet that a 17-year old who's into Geese or Playboy Carti loves music just as much as you did at 17, and it's just as important. everyone's moment is of paramount importance to that person, in their moment.

[DCrown]

Reality: Almost no one growing up today can afford a college education, house, new car, kids, and god have mercy if they have even the most minor interaction with the US healthcare system.

KVR: "Why aren't kids just like I was back in the day?"

That is, sadly, quite true. Back to my soapbox it's why most anyone who isn't a bazillionaire turning 18-20 no longer has time or attention span for pop culture. It's the looming existential threat of all the above.

Just to derail this topic even more: "There's no present. There's only the immediate future and the recent past". - George Carlin

Hmm, i almost always defer to the genius of George Carlin (amazing observer of human behavoir), but a few million Tibetan Buddhist might not. Ram Das (former Harvard psychologist) said Be Here Now. Works for me. It's just "splitting hairs."
As for thread derailment, whoa, here on KVRaudio, shocked i am.

I think the OP question was answered quite well, plugins have nothing to do with great music. Great sounding music sure...
Technique, make whatever is a "great music" with creativity, talent, collaborators (if necessary) the help of producer (in the former sense of the word, somebody to help direct the whole process.)

First recommendation for good music:
You need a good compressor.
2nd recommendation:
Use a compressor as little as possible,
rather focus on creating good music.

See above about "good music." The only time i actually need compression is for tracking live instruments or samples i've made. I have very few sample sets (uh, except for NI Komplete 12) just Soniccoutre, Hollow Sun, and Orange Tree, all perfectly well compressed, thank you. I use some PSP for their saturation though. Is there any good compressors? jk! I don't understand using a compressor on synthesized sound since we have minute control over the dynamics. just imo.

I rather track real instruments often with microphones, so sometimes a compressor can help to even out too big dynamic changes, but frankly speaking I prefer doing it manually ( Volume automation).
You can use a comp as an effect too or smash a sound/drums or bring something more upfront, API compressors are nice to smash drums, I like La3a to bring something upfront, depending on vocals LA2a can work great on vocals. Or you can use sidechain compression to avoid masking, for example kick and bass.
Some compressors add colorand its special character like Waves PIE compressor (love it) or Neve emus (I don't like).
In plugin world Softube and Acustica Audio compressors do not work for me at all, but there is a big choice anyway.
Don't use compressors a lot, though I pretty often need it on elctric bass, especially when I slap it, there is a lot of dynamic peaks.
An all purpose compressor is distressor, have it, don't like using it, though.

[CrystalWizard]

First recommendation for good music:
You need a good compressor.
2nd recommendation:
Use a compressor as little as possible,
rather focus on creating good music.

See above about "good music." The only time i actually need compression is for tracking live instruments or samples i've made. I have very few sample sets (uh, except for NI Komplete 12) just Soniccoutre, Hollow Sun, and Orange Tree, all perfectly well compressed, thank you. I use some PSP for their saturation though. Is there any good compressors? jk! I don't understand using a compressor on synthesized sound since we have minute control over the dynamics. just imo.

I rather track real instruments, so sometimes a compressor can help to even out too big dynamic changes, but frankly speaking I prefer doing it manually ( Volume automation).
You can use a comp as an effect too or smash a sound/drums or bring something more upfront, API compressors are nice to smash drums, I like La3a to bring something upfront.

Yeah same, sometimes a compressor is the answer. For me percussion, field recording, anything with spiky transient, especially really long tracks.
I'm familiar with the smashing of drums (in at least two meanings
i just don't care to hear that sound* Maybe it was the hundreds of EDM events i attended, helped produce, played at...ftr i'm not much of a fan of most (but some, like any form of music) psytrance, goa trance, breakbeats, house music, and the rest.
* except the occasional Buddy Miles/ Keith moon type drums.

edited to fix quotes

[JerGoertz]

a good song, a cassette tape recorder and a DX7 is all you need.

Yes, but you would need to be a talented genius.

We're still waiting for the Insta-Talent plugin.

[VariKusBrainZ]

Was released years ago, you must have missed it as it takes talent to notice it

[sin night]

I don't understand using a compressor on synthesized sound since we have minute control over the dynamics. just imo.

Synths offer more control at the source, but sometimes there's still a need to control a performance, for example when playing with some parameters (cutoff, resonance?) causes changes in volume, or to tame some transients.

Speaking of transients, it's possible to deliberately program a sound with a lot of transient on a synth (= low sustain level) and taming it with a compressor later to get the colour of that compressor (it's an envelope/vca on top of a synth, after all), or to have a sound with a clear transient for some processing purposes (for example to feed a delay or reverb)... I can see various situations for compressors, although with synth there's a lot of control over dynamics right at the source and it should be used.

[eLawnMust]

Alotta conflict but no examples, Talk is cheap-o... Fact is that knowing music & how to go about it is way more important than what you make it in or what gear you have or any of that nonsense... The problem is that somebody grans ableton or FL then thinks 'I'm a musician now' nope, not a chance... This is why we have so many single-finger dabblers piling up FX on crap notes, if your music is good you need hardly any FX... This is also a problem with movies as young set think because it has great CGI it's a great movie even though the story is shit beyond compare... So that would make country, ethnic, old jazz, classical, bluegrass, folk, etc, etc crap because they are not using overbounding screaming FX?... No it's other way around completely....

Here like 2 years ago I made some tunes in AXS tracker, very small DOS tracker ported to windows then given free in 2001, It has nice multi-timbral synth still sounds good it's only 460 kb total directory size... I have a thread over at sunvox forum that's now over 1,007,000... Yup over a million views in less than a 3 year thread... Latest done in it is at alonetone as I don't use soundcloud anymore, Yup, you'll have to GO THERE rather than lazily click-

https://alonetone.com/TalkOrBell/tracks/axs-jazzmonger


Before that I had 2 done in AXS (one a WIP) at soundcloud-

https://soundcloud.com/waxing-and-waning/pulp-friction

https://soundcloud.com/waxing-and-wanin ... me-a-river

None of these were enhanced in anyway but I could've exported each track individual & brought into any multi-tracker for further process....