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Peter Pan wrote:Seriously, did you guys think this reverb would beat lexicon and tc verbs?

It's a nice thing to be optimistic and all, but come on............. :nutter:
guys, i think it`s time to clear something up:
it was never our intension to beat or clone lexicon or tc.
if you like theese, go and get them. they`re still available on the market. :D
we wanted to fill a hole in the reverb section.
we wanted to create something that a lot of users still miss in reverb terms.
honestly, we don`t think, that any of the native_algorithmic_ reverbs (calculated by host) can compete with the ArtsAcoustic Reverb.
it`s nice that everybody who has critics (which of course are deeply apreciated) automatically compares it with the highest quality out on the planet, and that leads us to the fact, that our reverb is at least filling the hole that we`ve been thinking to fill. under attention of cpu usage and flexibility we think there cannot be much better.
that was the goal.
if a reverb is coming out that sounds as good as lexicon or tc i am sure that there is no practical use, if you don`t want to bounce/freeze.
also you have to keep in mind, that, if this lexi-tc reverb uses the amount of cpu that we strongly believe it does, you`d have to buy a second computer/soundcard to make it actually work the way you want. adding theese prices you will be able to buy a big lexicon or tc harware unit, so this fails for us.
our reverb is buildt under the aim, that a lot of users (which will be the future IOO) work entirely on a computer, which means soundgenerating, arranging, mixing and mastering in one go. we know a lot of users that hate to bounce and freeze, who want to have full control in every stage of those processes.
considering theese aspects we doubt that any of the native algorithmic vst reverbs offer our flexibility/soundquality.
of course, this is all a matter of taste at least. :D
Kind regards, Nick at ArtsAcoustic
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I don't think the Lexicon 480 has that much raw processing power.. but anyways, I agree that your reverb manages to fill it's promise of good native algorithmic reverb. The best so far? I do not know.. the very old Arboretum Hyperprism reverb that came with the pack, Hyperverb I think it was called, was my original benchmark and still sounds extremely good to this day.. and it beats your reverb in cpu usage (and it's still a bit denser, compare with a rim shot or muted cowbell sample).

Cheers!
bManic

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So in other words, you are holding out on us? (just kidding ;)) I haven't had a chance to demo this yet, so please don't read into my comments that I'm not happy. I was simply challenging the idea that a VST by definition can't compete with Lexicon or TC - I think it's possible. Actually - while I think of it - has anyone tried the reverb in Jeskola XS-1? It's a fairly old Soundfont player, but a very good one. I've always been impressed by the reverb in that - especially for percussion. It's obviously a simple low CPU verb algorithm, but - to my ears - it's got that magic X factor. I asked the developer if he could sell this as a vst plugin reverb, but didn't get past his secretary. When you compare reverbs like this, and Glaceverb and all the others on the market, the range of sounds is huge. I really don't think there is any limitation in VST or even in current CPU requirements ...

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bmanic wrote:I don't think the Lexicon 480 has that much raw processing power..


no, i diddn`t say it has more power. the designing of their dsp (it`s made for them exactly after their requirements) is very efficient, as one who is programming in c++ has to deal with very generic memory managements, very generic cpu`s, very generic operating systems, etc. remember, it has to work on _every_ more or less up to date cpu.
so, if one wants to create a lexicon reverb (or any other hardware that has it`s own dsp especially designed for it`s needs) he has to deal with a lot of issues more that charges a lot of cpu due work arounds, etc. thats why i say on a conventional cpu this "ported" algorithm would most probably cost way more cpu power than on their own dsp.

bmanic wrote:but anyways, I agree that your reverb manages to fill it's promise of good native algorithmic reverb. The best so far? I do not know.. the very old Arboretum Hyperprism reverb that came with the pack, Hyperverb I think it was called, was my original benchmark and still sounds extremely good to this day.. and it beats your reverb in cpu usage (and it's still a bit denser, compare with a rim shot or muted cowbell sample).
i remember thisone roughly. it was direct x only, right ? where can i get it ? i`d like to try it.
i had the hyperprism stuff on my protools system a long time ago.
if you ask me, all their stuff was horrible. but i diddn`t own their reverb. iirc there was non for protools.
Kind regards, Nick at ArtsAcoustic
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Just had a quick test of the demo - and sadly this isn't the sound i'm looking for. But everyone should try this for themselves. I have a lot of reverbs, free and commercial, and all have their strengths and weaknesses. In trying to get that Lexicon souund, maybe VST reverb algorithmns are trying too hard? I mean, most Lexicons can do simple delay stuff. Most people would agree that VST fx can nail simple delay stuff - a digital delay is a digital delay, to a certain extent. (Not comparing with tape or analog here). I actually find that simple multi delays such as Karlette (remember Karlette) give big, sweet, spacious, musical reverby sounds with only 4 delay lines. I suspect the early Lexicon reverbs were little more than about 8 delay lines - which would have been a huge breakthrough at the time. Somewhere along the line, the musical echoey reverb created by multiple delay lines becomes the sand-papery mush that we are hearing from cheap VST reverbs. Maybe it's too many delays - too much processing - I don't know, but I know what I like when I hear it. I'm serious about the XS-1 reverb - I would pay good money for that simple reverb, even though it's not high tech, the sound excites me (especially on percussion - which is where most VST verbs crap out). Each to their own I suppose - although we all seem to agree Lexicon & TC have something desirable.

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I'm gonna check the demo today but let me say one thing in advanced :
I already heard the MP3 demos so according to these results I know this reverb would be useful for me.

For those of you who give constructive criticism to the developers I'm sure they welcome it, however as for destructive criticism... could you guys be more polite and also think of what you're gonna write here ?
Here are New developers in the scene presenting a new product - dont give those developers ( the human beings seeting in front of the computer monitor ) a bad feeling.

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For those of you who give constructive criticism to the developers I'm sure they welcome it, however as for destructive criticism... could you guys be more polite and also think of what you're gonna write here ?
I suppose that was aimed at me ... i'm trying to be constructive. So I don't like the sound (for me). Others might, but there's a helluva lotta free reverbs that sound excellent. At the price being charged, I was expecting this to move me. But everybody should try the demo and choose for themselves. It's a brilliant GUI - and some of the reverbs I'm comparing it against are no longer on the market, so for some people this will be the way to go.

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ttoz wrote:all jokes aside, in my personal opinion, I don't think this verb warant sthe price tag. Yes, I think it's nice, and yes, I could find a use for it, but I'm not willing to spend $250 AU for that pleasure.
you should read carefully before you write such things.
the reverb is 189e or 189usd (non eu).
and, sorry, it is worth any cent :D .
Kind regards, Nick at ArtsAcoustic
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ttoz wrote:
nick at artsacoustic wrote:
ttoz wrote:all jokes aside, in my personal opinion, I don't think this verb warant sthe price tag. Yes, I think it's nice, and yes, I could find a use for it, but I'm not willing to spend $250 AU for that pleasure.
you should read carefully before you write such things.
the reverb is 189e or 189usd (non eu).
and, sorry, it is worth any cent :D .
I said $250 AU, which means conversion in Australian dollars. :wink: please read again. (I am from Australia)
oh, sorry, just read it, too.
time to get some sleep.
no offend at all.
but it still is worth every au dollar :D .
Kind regards, Nick at ArtsAcoustic
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edit: ignore me..

:roll:

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Sicklecell666 wrote:edit: ignore me..

:roll:
LOL - I was just about to agree with you and you pulled the pin. So - what is with the spiralling prices on these verbs?

A business model where you sell lots of copies for an affordable price would be better for customer and developer for a whole stack of reasons.

Let me play devil's advocate for a minute - overpriced plugins from companies with no track record whatever - WTF?

How do we know if these will run on Longhorn or VST 3.0 or whether the companies minting them will be around to update them?

If I buy a cheap Lexi box it will do what it does for many years and still have resale value. The same cannot be said for the plethora of new verbs. The TDM business model indeed.

Eg

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