Decent Filters?

[anti-banausic]

Is it possible that what some people think is stepping, is just the new harmonic frequencies coming through using a lowpass with a fairly high resonance, or a sound with high resonance? Sometimes, it is just very noticeable no matter how smooth the automation curve. Sometimes an effect that I look for.

But you all probably know this already.

[useruseruser]

That kind of stepping meight be filter characteristics.

But most digital implementions with synthesizers and standalone filters do step, because the cutoff parameter is not interpolated. (It's like the same thing early VST synthesizers didn't interpolate the pitch bend, resulting in audible steps.)

Due the fact that most hosts have a constant blocksize, the steps are directly dependant from the hosts internal latency (size of the processing buffers). That's also dependant from the used driver and its settings.

External and standard VST parameter automation processes mostly ones per block. Hosts, which handle that different, produce mostly other problems with allot of plugins which actually have implemented a kind of internal parameter smoothing (for instance FL).

[mgcollins21]

The stair-stepping I'm talking about is simply assigning a knob on my midi controller to the cutoff and turning it. It stair steps. Or even tweaking the gui. This is before I do any automation.

[akisd28]

Is there any way to find Ohm Force's OMG? Is it available as a download somewhere or it was only available with CM?

[VitaminD]

what are you controlling these filters with? if its a midi controller of sorts.. perhaps it doesnt have a high resolution?

[3*s]

whats OMG?

Stands for "ohmygod."

It's an "experimental" effect from ohmforce that only comes with Computer Music Magazine or one of Ohm Force's bundles.

It's got a lot of things, including a comb filter as mentioned earlier, but it also has an awesome sounding multimode analog style filter, the same one as quadfromage I believe.

[renø]

The stair-stepping I'm talking about is simply assigning a knob on my midi controller to the cutoff and turning it. It stair steps. Or even tweaking the gui. This is before I do any automation.

assigning a simple midi controller to a cut-off frequency will always step whatever the plug-in/synth. It's because simple midi resolution is only on 128 steps, that's the steps you hear. Use a LSB+MSB MIDI controller instead (like pitch wheel), you won't notice the steps (128*128=16384 steps)

BTW i like this steps effect, it can be musically interesting sometimes. But only sometimes.

About free filters, I vote frohmage. (no step, sounds OK)

.

[9b0]

assigning a simple midi controller to a cut-off frequency will always step whatever the plug-in/synth. It's because simple midi resolution is only on 128 steps, that's the steps you hear. Use a LSB+MSB MIDI controller instead (like pitch wheel), you won't notice the steps (128*128=16384 steps)

If the parameter is interpolated correctly, the steps wont be audiable.

[mgcollins21]

I'm using EnergyXT, Hmmm, I'll try assigning it to the pitchbend wheel..thanks!

[mgcollins21]

and I'm using m-audio ozone for knobs, but like I said, it happens when I just move the knob on the gui as well.

[useruseruser]

The stair-stepping I'm talking about is simply assigning a knob on my midi controller to the cutoff and turning it. It stair steps. Or even tweaking the gui. This is before I do any automation.

assigning a simple midi controller to a cut-off frequency will always step whatever the plug-in/synth. It's because simple midi resolution is only on 128 steps, that's the steps you hear. Use a LSB+MSB MIDI controller instead (like pitch wheel), you won't notice the steps (128*128=16384 steps)

BTW i like this steps effect, it can be musically interesting sometimes. But only sometimes.

About free filters, I vote frohmage. (no step, sounds OK)

.

The low MIDI resolution has nothing to do with that.
All digital sound generators and effects should implement parameter smoothing.

That really shouldn't be a problem.

Even because low MIDI resolution and blocksize dependant processing summs up the problem.

[Sascha Franck]

The low MIDI resolution has nothing to do with that.
All digital sound generators and effects should implement parameter smoothing.

Yeah, go tell them developers... digital sound generators should indeed be smoothed on whatever parameter movements.

Actually, I wonder how many people noticed this, it's quite funny (nah, not exactly funny, just making you wonder): On quite some VSTis, when you move the filter manually or per MIDI assignment, you'll notice stepping, especially at higher resonance settings. When you however assign a modulation to them (such as ModWheel to Cutoff, the most usual thing ever), many of those won't step anymore, or at least less badly - and, in case modulation amount is set to 100% the effect will do just what you'd expect from turning a knob from 0 to 127 manually. It still makes a difference on many synths though. Weird.

[9b0]

I think, parameter interpolation should be managed by the host you are using, but because no one of the hosts do the job, it's the duty of the developers nowadays to create instruments instead of "just" plugins.

[jens]

Try Kjaerhus Classic Auto Filter. Doesn't step, and sounds great.

dude, ClassicAutoFilter steps like there's no tomorrow... UYE

I would reduce the blocksize of the host. That mostly helps...

I've found another fix for it - I just don't use it!

[Lunch Money]

I'm no expert, but I don't know how this automatic interpolation with MIDI or GUI control is supposed to work. The host or the plug-in have no way of knowing how quickly you're moving the knob or plan to move a knob, so how can steps be smoothly interpolated?

I'm not saying it can't be done-- I know that J&H has a heap more knowledge than I do, and Sascha Franck as well. I'm just curious about how it's supposed to be accomplished effectively or how other developers have already accomplished it.

In the meantime, I just use automation (or in the case of the Classic Auto Filter, 'automatic' modes, which do not step).

Greg