How do YOU feel about your music being pirated?

[androidlove]

My goal is to be part of a working band, so selling songs isn't on my plate right now. Putting myself in that position hypothetically, It'd be amazing to see my tunes generate that kind of interest. I feel I'd take some action if others were claiming my tunes or just making a profit from em.

At the moment I'd rather hear "androidlove is gonna play here" than "I just bought the new androidlove CD".

If someone doesn't want you to have their music for free, don't STEAL it. Don't try to sneak in to one of my shows. I can't guarantee the bouncer won't kill you.

[munchkin]

Some of you are incredibly ignorant.

Blissful, isn't it?

Still, I truly feel sorry for you.

Yes! People complaining about P2P are just silly, aren't they?

[shamann]

Arksun has a valid point, just because you steal from a bad man doesn't make it anything but stealing. But the same old fight between childish, anarchistic bandits and tongue-clucking, money-loving simpletons is all beside the point.

P2P isn't going away. Legit services have just given an outlet to people with conscience, but it doesn't reduce the amount of banditry around. We can argue the woulds and shoulds all we want with this yap about ethics, but none of it addresses the problem of reducing music exclusively to someone's conception of industry, or the problem of having an economy built entirely on a forced scarcity model despite having a super-abundance of product, or having a controlling power that for twenty years forced digital media on to the market place and then forced changes in legislation once that same digital media infringed on their moneymaker.

You want to talk ethics, why not make this a purposeful discussion about conceiving a business model that benefits all parties involved, and rewards effort put in, and treats human endeavour as more than just a resource for commercial exploitation.

This battle between petty criminals and the high-and-mighty happens all the time, but its just useless squabbling, a means of obfuscating the real problems we face as musicians, software makers, record labels, etc. The pointless back and forth just continually plays into the hands of those who would exploit.

A plea to all parties, put your shithead ideologies aside for a while and actually do something constructive for once.

For f**k's sake.

[Quaternion]

do something constructive for once.

Like what? (not joking)

[LIMITAPROACHINGINFINITY]

I wouldn't charge for my music in the first place.. I'll get a real job for income, art should be free.

I am far away from living from my music, I'm just earning peanuts. I'm not signed at a major, but at a small niche label, which relies on every single copy it sells.

I don't want to live on making music, I want to maintain it as something I enjoy, not as something I HAVE to do in order to earn a living. Still I think I should get what I deserve.

And not charging anything is just out of touch with reality.

Do you expect a label to produce records and give them away for free?

Thats my point... Your poor because your trying to live off of your music.. I think your a little out of touch with reality... Get a real job. Make music as your passion like you implied that it was... f**k labels. Do it on your own. If your goal is to become famous then i dont wanna hear your music anyway. I'ts probably contrived.

[shamann]

Like what? (not joking)

Maybe address some of the problems I've pointed out. Maybe figure out a fair and equitable way for music makeras and promoters to make money from the work.

Let's face it, most if not all of us here have zero affiliation with major labels, nor are we ever likely to. So who cares about them, lets focus on the situation as it pertains to us.

Each side can argue this point forever, and never the twain shall meet. Those who are against it will always be so, those who are for it aren't suddenly going to stop because someone admonished them in a fatherly tone.

So what then? Well if the bandits won't stop, and can't be stopped because they are legion, and the tongue cluckers aren't going to change their minds because they feel they have a moral point to stick to, then you have an impasse.

So try figuring out how to start anew. Recorded media may be a lost cause as a way of making a living for those of us on low. So figure out how those who make content can still earn a living doing so. I'm not talking some pie-in-the-sky utopia, just figuring out some way to make this all a bit more palatable for us on low.

Keeping this pointless fight up, the only winners are those who have already won anyway, because it sure isn't going to stop the banditry and suddenly make it viable for us to make a living as music makers.

[fjell_strom]

Do you expect a label to produce records and give them away for free?

Of course no one does. You probably know no one does. Reading this, however, made me think of several things. One of which was: if all the record labels on earth went tits up tomorrow, I don't think I'd miss them. There would be people who would miss them and I would not be included, in that particular group. I say this still while understanding that, had labels never existed, I might not have heard some of the music which I "love".

But I think that the digitally encoded music sharing which runs rampant now throughout the internet is not to be stopped. I think there is no way of interupting, regulating, stipulating, or controlling it, or putting a cork in it, at this belated stage, barring the utter and total demolition of the internet. I think it hardly goes without saying that this particular practice, now illegal, displays the will of an untold mass of millions.

I don't mean, and I never will, that the numbers yield a black or white bearing on the practice being ethical. But since humans define ethics and humans are doing the downloading, the issue enters something more of a difficult arena.

[LIMITAPROACHINGINFINITY]

Downloading and copying music is different than stealing because it is known as intillectual property.. It is nothing physical. Sure, its not the right thing to do, but its nowhere near as severe as stealing hard-goods.. The analogy is flawed and unfair... When i download a song from someone else.. The band still owns that song.. They did not loose out on anything (Unless i WAS going to purchase it) and even then they only lost a POTENTIAL income, not physical inventory..

[androidlove]

Get a real job

If your goal is to become famous then i dont wanna hear your music anyway. I'ts probably contrived

You mean, made to sound good to the human brain?

[herodotus]

Well said, shamann.

The genie is never going back in the bottle.

That being said, I don't think that there is anything that can be done to avert the impending apocalypse.

The big 5 will fall. Just as the Hollywood of Louis B. Mayer and Darryl F Zanuck failed.

Just as the Dinosaurs failed, only faster.

[Quaternion]

Thats my point... Your poor because your trying to live off of your music..

Please read more carefully, I wrote that I am not living on music and I don't want to live on music. Furthermore I'm not poor.

Make music as your passion like you implied that it was... f**k labels.
Do it on your own. If your goal is to become famous then i dont wanna hear your music anyway. I'ts probably contrived.

Yes, I enjoy making music. What I also enjoy is attending a party and see the DJ spin my tracks and when people respond to them in a positiv way.

That has nothing to do with wanting to become famous. I will never become famous producing hardcore techno anyways.

I don't want to f**k my label, because that would mean that I have to take care of vinyl production myself. Is that too hard to understand?

[tkay77]

yeah here is my silly fantastic proposition:

every citizen who listens conscious to music is paying a monthly "music fee" which is trustfunded by an political independant music organisation. this organisation is directly supporting only specialised labels (so no majors are needed anymore) the labels are directly supporting the musicians..the listener can buy the music for a very low symbolic price (to measure the success), so there is no need to steal it...so there is more variety, no more majors, happy musicians and happy listeners... okay, there is also less competition, but music is defintely not getting better by commercial pressure..

tkay

[kaden]

Regardless of your personal stance on the causative issues, common sense says that you shouldn't make any long-term plans based around a blatantly failing business model.

Have you *realistically* considered yer 'I want to be paid what it's worth' attitude? If you're getting paid $00.00, then that's what the market has decided you're worth. If it ain't selling, figure out some other way to make money from it.

Adapt or die.

Just don't whine about it.

Sheesh. For the first time in history musicians have a legitimate shot at levelling the playingfield vis a vis 'the industry', and there's people out there fighting to be victims.

Go lemmings go.

K

[Quaternion]

Have you *realistically* considered yer 'I want to be paid what it's worth' attitude? If you're getting paid $00.00, then that's what the market has decided you're worth. If it ain't selling, figure out some other way to make money from it.

What has this argument got to do with the illegal distribution of music?

[fjell_strom]

Have you *realistically* considered yer 'I want to be paid what it's worth' attitude? If you're getting paid $00.00, then that's what the market has decided you're worth. If it ain't selling, figure out some other way to make money from it.

What has this argument got to do with the illegal distribution of music?

I think Kaden's post spoke about nothing except ramifications of the illegal distribution of music. Was it that cryptic?