And about the site not working properly: I think the problems are happening when a higher resolution (like: 1280x1024) is being used.
I'm having the same problems on my home LCD, but it works fine at other places.
10-Band PLParEQ is Here!
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- KVRian
- 880 posts since 22 Jan, 2005
I just want to show my appreciation for a great plugin you made!
And about the site not working properly: I think the problems are happening when a higher resolution (like: 1280x1024) is being used.
I'm having the same problems on my home LCD, but it works fine at other places.
And about the site not working properly: I think the problems are happening when a higher resolution (like: 1280x1024) is being used.
I'm having the same problems on my home LCD, but it works fine at other places.
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- KVRAF
- 3846 posts since 15 Mar, 2002 from Underworld
Yep, now it's very usable and the CPU consumption is much lower than before... except for the [still] buggy presets behaviour everything seems to be running fine. The GUI still doesn't update the K metering and the bands except for the first one, but essentially the presets work all right.
Thank you Refined Audiometrics!
Cheers!
Thank you Refined Audiometrics!
Cheers!
It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society. - Jiddu Krishnamurti
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- KVRist
- 248 posts since 7 May, 2004
Dave, I appreciate the free plugs, too. But Sascha does have some good points. I too have seen weird text rolling off your pages. The web site is a bit amateurish. And the copy does sound a little hyped.
Again, we are trying to give some helpful feedback. Sascha always tries to give good constructive criticism.
Also, I agree about the "this pages is deprecated" note.. What does that mean (in the world of the web)?
Please don't take these comments badly. We are only trying to help. We want to see you do well.
Thanks for the nice plugs!
Again, we are trying to give some helpful feedback. Sascha always tries to give good constructive criticism.
Also, I agree about the "this pages is deprecated" note.. What does that mean (in the world of the web)?
Please don't take these comments badly. We are only trying to help. We want to see you do well.
Thanks for the nice plugs!
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- KVRist
- 150 posts since 14 Jan, 2004
Is that widescreen? Should it not be 1280x960?Colonel Flashback wrote:website doesn't display correctly here either: windows xp, firefox, 1280x1024
Website looks fine. Relax fellas and enjoy this fine eq....
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- KVRAF
- 1601 posts since 24 Jun, 2004 from Australia
Please note, the following assumes pixels that are square.
1280x1024 is actually a 5:4 instead of 4:3 ratio, so it is more square than a normal screen. I say "normal" when this resolution seems to be fast becoming normal due to the increase in sales of LCD screens which have this native resolution.
1280x960 is not widescreen, it is 4:3 (same ratio as 1024x768). 1280x800 is actually 16:10 widescreen. Therefore 1280x720 is, of course, 16:9 widescreen.
I have no idea why ratios have not been standardised and strictly adhered to, but apparently the world cares about it as much as mathematics, judging from the last couple of comments. :)
On topic, I really like the sound of this EQ. I'd say the webpages problem (without looking at the code) is that it is using fixed positioning of the black sidebar, so on a higher resolution it will come in towards the middle but the text will continue over it. Relative positioning would be better, tell the black bar to stick to the right side of the element and tell the text element not to go past the width of the black bar from the side.
Best of luck! I know your product is far out of my price-range, I've forced myself to buy a few things that total something like $300-400 USD, and I don't think I can afford to spend much more. Really great sounding plugin though.
1280x1024 is actually a 5:4 instead of 4:3 ratio, so it is more square than a normal screen. I say "normal" when this resolution seems to be fast becoming normal due to the increase in sales of LCD screens which have this native resolution.
1280x960 is not widescreen, it is 4:3 (same ratio as 1024x768). 1280x800 is actually 16:10 widescreen. Therefore 1280x720 is, of course, 16:9 widescreen.
I have no idea why ratios have not been standardised and strictly adhered to, but apparently the world cares about it as much as mathematics, judging from the last couple of comments. :)
On topic, I really like the sound of this EQ. I'd say the webpages problem (without looking at the code) is that it is using fixed positioning of the black sidebar, so on a higher resolution it will come in towards the middle but the text will continue over it. Relative positioning would be better, tell the black bar to stick to the right side of the element and tell the text element not to go past the width of the black bar from the side.
Best of luck! I know your product is far out of my price-range, I've forced myself to buy a few things that total something like $300-400 USD, and I don't think I can afford to spend much more. Really great sounding plugin though.
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- KVRian
- 1121 posts since 8 Oct, 2005
my earlier post probably got missed with all the fussing, but i'm still hoping for a response. thx!
i have sonar 4 and have some trouble with the 3 band version not allowing the audio to start when i hit play. sonar sends that message "audio stopped." i have to hit play several times before it finally comes on. this always happens right after inserting it then occasionally thereafter.
i have sonar 4 and have some trouble with the 3 band version not allowing the audio to start when i hit play. sonar sends that message "audio stopped." i have to hit play several times before it finally comes on. this always happens right after inserting it then occasionally thereafter.
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 236 posts since 5 Oct, 2005 from Tucson, AZ, USA
Okay, I have been asked to explain a bit about hearing restoration...
The term "Golden Ear" connotes someone who is able to hear the subtlest details in the music. It also generally denotes someone with "perfect hearing" - quotes because there is not such thing...
When a person is deprived of one of their senses, they typically develop compensatory mechanisms to cope with the world at hand. People with impaired hearing live in a sonically dark universe. For myself, I could only hear the lower range of the piano keyboard and 2 ocataves above middle C where gone... So most of my own music was "in the basement"... Lotsa basss...
By imposing frequency selective nonlinear gain compression to sound, in just the right amount, you can go a long way toward restoring impaired hearing. Of course you cannot restore "profound" loss - defined as threshold elevations of 90 dB or more. But most people have considerably less impairment. The "right amount" of gain compression depends on both the hearing characteristics of the individual, and the immediate "loudness" of the sounds at those frequencies.
You can do just about anything to improve hearing. It all sounds better than nothing. We immediately understood the nature of impaired hearing, and we have equations that relate the measured threshold elevation to the apparent loudness of sound at various intensities.
Missing for the longest time, however, was a description of what sounds ought to sound like. We need to know that so that we know by how much to bend the amplitude spectrum at each frequency. Prior to having that information, our EarSpring equation, we could improve sound but we had no idea if it was correct, because we didn't know what a correct sound should seem.
Having now both equations in hand -- one to describe impaired hearing, and the other to describe a sense of "perfect" hearing, we can now observe the sound in 100 overlapping quarter-Bark bands (Bark corresponds to the critical bandwidth of our hearing) and make instantaneous corrections from where we know the listener would perceive the sound to where a golden ear would perceive it to be.
Now, back to Golden Ears... Once the impaired listener has regained this sound presentation through our System 5000 and its brothers, you find a psychological aspect taking hold. Little tiny things, that most people could hear if they would only pay attention, draw our immediate attention because they are foreign to our darker world. Things like the buzzing of harp strings against the players fingernails. Instruments being dropped in the background, or even orchestra members farting... heh!
So in that psychological sense, we do regain far more than we ever lost, when listening through the System 5000. In simplest terms, System 5000 is a stereo 100-band nonlinear compressor. The shape of the compression curves depends at each frequency on the listeners threshold elevation, and results from the realtime solution of a pair of highly nonlinear differential equations that best describe our overall hearing "system".
We calibrate these equations against known physical phenomena, such as -- the amount by which pitches flatten as you run from 40 dBSPL (at 1 kHz) to 85 dBSPL is nearly 75 cents!!! We make sure that our equations would predict that same amount by adjusting its parameters. There are quite a few others.
But in the end, our equations best describe the overall system -- outer ear, middle ear, inner ear (cochlea), 8th nerve afferents, brain, 8th nerve efferents, and finally to sensation. No doubt someday someone will find an even more correct system of equations. But for now, our system goes lightyears beyond even the very highest quality digital hearing aids.
Cheers,
-- DM
[And thanks to that person who indicated what the web site problem might just be... I'm no web expert as you already know. Constructive criticism is always welcomed..]
The term "Golden Ear" connotes someone who is able to hear the subtlest details in the music. It also generally denotes someone with "perfect hearing" - quotes because there is not such thing...
When a person is deprived of one of their senses, they typically develop compensatory mechanisms to cope with the world at hand. People with impaired hearing live in a sonically dark universe. For myself, I could only hear the lower range of the piano keyboard and 2 ocataves above middle C where gone... So most of my own music was "in the basement"... Lotsa basss...
By imposing frequency selective nonlinear gain compression to sound, in just the right amount, you can go a long way toward restoring impaired hearing. Of course you cannot restore "profound" loss - defined as threshold elevations of 90 dB or more. But most people have considerably less impairment. The "right amount" of gain compression depends on both the hearing characteristics of the individual, and the immediate "loudness" of the sounds at those frequencies.
You can do just about anything to improve hearing. It all sounds better than nothing. We immediately understood the nature of impaired hearing, and we have equations that relate the measured threshold elevation to the apparent loudness of sound at various intensities.
Missing for the longest time, however, was a description of what sounds ought to sound like. We need to know that so that we know by how much to bend the amplitude spectrum at each frequency. Prior to having that information, our EarSpring equation, we could improve sound but we had no idea if it was correct, because we didn't know what a correct sound should seem.
Having now both equations in hand -- one to describe impaired hearing, and the other to describe a sense of "perfect" hearing, we can now observe the sound in 100 overlapping quarter-Bark bands (Bark corresponds to the critical bandwidth of our hearing) and make instantaneous corrections from where we know the listener would perceive the sound to where a golden ear would perceive it to be.
Now, back to Golden Ears... Once the impaired listener has regained this sound presentation through our System 5000 and its brothers, you find a psychological aspect taking hold. Little tiny things, that most people could hear if they would only pay attention, draw our immediate attention because they are foreign to our darker world. Things like the buzzing of harp strings against the players fingernails. Instruments being dropped in the background, or even orchestra members farting... heh!
So in that psychological sense, we do regain far more than we ever lost, when listening through the System 5000. In simplest terms, System 5000 is a stereo 100-band nonlinear compressor. The shape of the compression curves depends at each frequency on the listeners threshold elevation, and results from the realtime solution of a pair of highly nonlinear differential equations that best describe our overall hearing "system".
We calibrate these equations against known physical phenomena, such as -- the amount by which pitches flatten as you run from 40 dBSPL (at 1 kHz) to 85 dBSPL is nearly 75 cents!!! We make sure that our equations would predict that same amount by adjusting its parameters. There are quite a few others.
But in the end, our equations best describe the overall system -- outer ear, middle ear, inner ear (cochlea), 8th nerve afferents, brain, 8th nerve efferents, and finally to sensation. No doubt someday someone will find an even more correct system of equations. But for now, our system goes lightyears beyond even the very highest quality digital hearing aids.
Cheers,
-- DM
[And thanks to that person who indicated what the web site problem might just be... I'm no web expert as you already know. Constructive criticism is always welcomed..]
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 236 posts since 5 Oct, 2005 from Tucson, AZ, USA
For all the folks out there that have been having problems with CPU loads... be sure to get the latest version 1.80. That has been considerably optimized, and is likely 2-3 times faster (lower CPU load).
- DM
- DM
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- KVRAF
- 11386 posts since 3 Feb, 2003 from Finland, Espoo
Look, this is where you all get it wrong. Why do you assume that they are talking about totally deaf persons? One can have "hearing loses" in certain frequency areas (like I do), say, -12dB scoop at around 2kHz. Why couldn't one compensate for this?Sascha Franck wrote:Sorry, no, I'm not. Let's assume 100% hearing loss, in other words, a deaf person. Will you be able to restore that persons hearing using whatever software? No way! Never. Ever! It's just that simple, no way around it.dbmcclain wrote:Ahem... You are wrong about hearing restoration.
EDIT: looks like David explained it already. Sometimes I'm a bit amazed that people always assume the 'extremes' like: "they are talking about hearing loss, you can't cure deaf people!! jada jada jada..", like there wouldn't be anything between perfect hearing and deaf?
- bManic
Last edited by bmanic on Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Wisdom is wisdom, regardless of the idiot who said it." -an idiot
"They don't ban hate speech; they ban speech they hate." -an oracle
"They don't ban hate speech; they ban speech they hate." -an oracle
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- KVRAF
- 11386 posts since 3 Feb, 2003 from Finland, Espoo
And if you read again what you posted you'll see why you brought it upon yourself (I'll give you a hint: You posted major off topic, it was about the EQ but you kept ranting about the 'hearing loss scam').nuffink wrote:I've had a fair number of PM's since I brought this up.Sascha Franck wrote:Please take away the "hearing restoration" remarks on your site. While a proper EQ *could* be used to get you back some *stuff* (whatever that might mean), we all know that it's just impossible in a medical way to restore a damaged ear using some software.
You're aiming at some mastering professionals, aren't you? You are clearly *not* aiming at people with impaired hearing skills but at those with "golden ears". A fundamental difference.
Really, while your products seem to be great (not tried the latest free versions yet), the marketing is.... uhm, let me say "questionable".
Some from concerned devs worried about sticking their heads above the parapet.
A bit of hate mail from the fanboys.
One from the KvR management warning me off.
- bManic
"Wisdom is wisdom, regardless of the idiot who said it." -an idiot
"They don't ban hate speech; they ban speech they hate." -an oracle
"They don't ban hate speech; they ban speech they hate." -an oracle
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- KVRist
- 190 posts since 28 Nov, 2003
dbmcclain - with hearing aids a fitter with expertise in the field normally (always?) assists in the fitting process (to prevent hearing damage, among other things). I understand some hearing aids that use interactive genetic algorithms are also been developed which allow users to fit their own hearing aids for "real-life" environments without understanding the hearing aid's parameters. Just out of curiousity, how is your System 5000 optimally fitted for each user's hearing disability?
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- KVRAF
- 11386 posts since 3 Feb, 2003 from Finland, Espoo
@autloc: Read their site description about the System 5000. Guess what it says? They personally come to your home and set it up. 
- bManic
- bManic
"Wisdom is wisdom, regardless of the idiot who said it." -an idiot
"They don't ban hate speech; they ban speech they hate." -an oracle
"They don't ban hate speech; they ban speech they hate." -an oracle
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- Banned
- 82 posts since 28 Oct, 2005
dbmcclain wrote:For all the folks out there that have been having problems with CPU loads... be sure to get the latest version 1.80. That has been considerably optimized, and is likely 2-3 times faster (lower CPU load).
- DM
Great Stuff.
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- KVRist
- 190 posts since 28 Nov, 2003
Hmm, website looks different from when last I checked 
. Heh. Well, I guess that answers that. My sympathies to the spouses of anyone with severe hearing loss who's using that system over anything other than headphones, though 
. Heh. Well, I guess that answers that. My sympathies to the spouses of anyone with severe hearing loss who's using that system over anything other than headphones, though