Are you pissed off at Reason?

[liquidsound]

Yes, they exploited me for $1 for version 6 and nothing for version 6.5 all while introducing new devices.

If they do that for every update they can feel free to exploit me 12 times a year if they like.

You did it to them

[justin3am]

Support VST2 and 3 like a man and be done with it.

Based on what little I understand about what is going on behind the scenes in Reason, I think this would have been pretty much impossible.

If given the choice between RE and no plug-ins at all, I think MOST Reason users would choose the RE option. While some people may have preferred that Reason not support plug-ins at all, I think that amongst Reason users, they would be in the minority.

If VST support was practical/a possibility (technically or business-wise), I think the PH guys would have made it happen. As it happens, I believe that RE are a rather elegant solution to the problem of not being able to shoe-horn VST support into a platform that wasn't designed for third-party plug-ins to begin with.

I do share some of zerocrossing's sentiment, though. I hope that VST/AU devs don't spend too much time porting existing VSTs to RE (at least not at the expense of providing support for new OSs and stuff). However, if devs have cool ideas (I know they do) about stuff that could only work in the context of the Reason platform, I think they should spend as much time as it takes to make it happen. Who knows, we may all be using a form of Rack Extensions 5 years from now.

[DuX]

Yes.

We don't need more "Monsantos". And we, as expenses conscious customers, more and more people being on the budget, simply shouldn't support monopolistic behaviour like that, for our own good. I know I'm not. In every way, it's become my style of living even. So you won't see me buying anything Apple, Microsoft, or even Intel, or Waves, Digi, Avid, Sweinburg etc... All "underdogs" need our support, for our own good! [for our own full pocket's sake, to put it utterly simple] If every company out there had their own proprietary format for everything, we, the customers, lose the most. Just imagine if every DAW out there had their own proprietary format for plugins??? Reaper, Cubase, EnergyXT, MuLab, Reason, FL Studio and on and on... There's no *reason* to discuss it at all. I like VST, and you should ALL like it, too, because you have so many options with it, and when you buy a VST plugin you can load it in pretty much every DAW, except Reason, of course. So for a VST plugin, I think buying it is well worth it and future proof. RE? no-no... Except if they think they can make another as open format as VST... naaah no way.

As Zerocrossing said, it's just totally unnecessary. They could have developed a little VST bridge and be over with it. Everybody happy. I could start using Reason then, too, without thinking "omg, now I have to buy all these plugins I have, but RE version this time.." is it worth it? Naaah. I'm satisfied with what I have and use. But you see, if Reason was open to VST, I would be far more intrigued by it, and maybe start using it, if I could only use the tools I like to use, and paid for them already, in it. there's just no way I'm going to buy the same plugins one more time just because of any DAW, not just Reason. I have nothing against Reason, and I actually think it's a pretty good DAW, or rather a tool... I find it hard to call it a DAW since it's so closed. On the other hand, there's, thankfully, ReWire. So there you go. You can mix in any DAW that supports ReWire. So they're not so stupid after all... Stupid move would be abandoning ReWire now that they've got RE... and if they think in a monopolistic way, and they do, they would abandon it. Just a thought...

Simple materialistic, capitalist logic. There's nothing simpler than that. This is quite a bad move from Propellerheads, Microsoft or Apple style, in my humblest opinion. Nothing to be excited about nor brag about... If they wanted to bring more users to Reason, they should have rather implemented VST bridge for it.

Just my humble 2 mil. quid.

Cheers!

[headquest]

And we ... simply shouldn't support monopolistic behaviour like that, for our own good. I know I'm not....

...If every company out there had their own proprietary format for everything, we, the customers, lose the most. Just imagine if every DAW out there had their own proprietary format for plugins???

Brilliantly put

[chk071]

And we ... simply shouldn't support monopolistic behaviour like that, for our own good. I know I'm not....

...If every company out there had their own proprietary format for everything, we, the customers, lose the most. Just imagine if every DAW out there had their own proprietary format for plugins???

Mhh... but if every DAW had its own proprietray format, you could not really call that a monopole anymore, could you? At least i am damn happy that the VST format is the no. 1 format for audio plugins nowadays. It's good for the customers and the developpers.

Anyway, the reason for me, that Propellerhead uses their own format, is more of a marketing thing. As i posted before, if Reason would support VST, there would be no reason to use Reason anymore, as other DAW's have superior functionality, it is only logical for them to create another plugin format, and create an app store for it, which will also lead to an increased sell.

[PB2000]

. There's no *reason* to discuss it at all. I like VST, and you should ALL like it, too, because you have so many options with it, and when you buy a VST plugin you can load it in pretty much every DAW, except Reason, of course.

Therein lies your problem. There is a large contingency of audio manipulation and recording users that don't like VST's and probably never will. This is the big fallacy that a lot of you guys like to argue; a lot of people don't use multiple DAW's and they like Reason as their favorite environment.

I agree, VST's in Reason would be very popular but popular doesn't mean shite if it doesn't work well or has a larger learning curve for users. Not everyone is well acclimated to computers or the DAW environment like a lot of us and are turned off with the VST learning curve. I recently dabbled with VST's again in Studio One (which I really like for a few non-VST purposes) and can say without doubt that I would choose Re's in Reason for ease of use everyday of the week.

You guys also like to think that every DAW user has been doing this for 10 years and has stacks of VST's laying around and don't want that investment to go to waste. I can understand the investment aspect but there are new users daily and RE's are going to be very popular simply for ease of use.

[myrna]

wait, is there another standard, apart VST out there?! You call AU "a standard"?! Maybe "aax" ?
By the way, reason will never support vst. Not because they don't want it, but because they can't: as soon as reason hosts vst it will crash immediately (weakness of code, i guess?). Reason is "rock solid" only as a standalone software. The fact they introduced "REs" proves they wanted to make a vst host out of it. The RE thing is the answer to 10 years of this userbase feature request. But, for me, to little, too late. They had to be clearer with customers years ago, rather than talking crap like "vsts are unstable" and such balls. Sometimes the truth hurts... but why illuding people for years?... That is why I am pissed off at them.

[IncarnateX]

I like VST, and you should ALL like it, too, because you have so many options with it, and when you buy a VST plugin you can load it in pretty much every DAW, except Reason, of course.

Go screw yourself mate. I like what I choose to like and there is just about nothing a choir of whiners can do about it. Right now I am glad that my VSTis are something I can open in Orion and my REs in Reason. If for nothing else then the fitting graphics and modular concepts of REs. If I really would find it painstakingly necessary to run any VSTi with Reason, I would simply use Rewire. There is no problem at all here, just a lot problem makers.

[PB2000]

Reason is "rock solid" only as a standalone software. The fact they introduced "REs" proves they wanted to make a vst host out of it.

Wait a minute....you mean Reason is "rock solid".....as it was designed?!? Get the F*&^ out of town. Who would have expected that?

The fact that they introduced Re's is because they got to the point to where they felt comfortable with both hardware and software power and integration in the Reason environment. They've never had any intent to introduce VST hosting nor should they. There are more than enough users that want to work exclusively with Reason or via Rewire to worry about VST's, a format that a large portion of users don't care about, don't like and will never use.

[chk071]

By the way, reason will never support vst. Not because they don't want it, but because they can't: as soon as reason hosts vst it will crash immediately (weakness of code, i guess?).

That's the second time i read this. Where did you get that information from?

[PB2000]

By the way, reason will never support vst. Not because they don't want it, but because they can't: as soon as reason hosts vst it will crash immediately (weakness of code, i guess?).

That's the second time i read this. Where did you get that information from?

He didn't. He likes making things up to feel better about his point and because he's mad. Everyone else in the world understood that the Props would never introduce VST's in Reason yet for whatever purpose, he held out hope that any 3rd party input would be via VST, a format the Props don't care for.

[myrna]

Reason is "rock solid" only as a standalone software. The fact they introduced "REs" proves they wanted to make a vst host out of it.

Wait a minute....you mean Reason is "rock solid".....as it was designed?!? Get the F*&^ out of town. Who would have expected that?

The fact that the introduced Re's is because they got to the point to where they felt comfortable with both hardware and software power and integration in the Reason environment. They've never had any intent to introduce VST hosting nor should they. There are more than enough users that want to work exclusively with Reason or via Rewire to worry about VST's.

Not true. The claim was: "you wanted vst? We give you RE", so tons of fanboys (who just the day before were all against vst) started to dream about alchemy RE, omnisphere RE, kontakt RE...
You will never see such instruments in reason: REs are only very light and simple effects or synths. Infact you download them like apps, few megabytes and quite different from original vsts versions... They are just racks made by others rather than PH, not plugins.

[myrna]

By the way, reason will never support vst. Not because they don't want it, but because they can't: as soon as reason hosts vst it will crash immediately (weakness of code, i guess?).

That's the second time i read this. Where did you get that information from?

Because there is no other reason. Live was rock solid until version 4. And now it hosts plugins. FL was kind of a reason-thing toy, then it started supporting plugins, and you see the difference, more complete and professional than reason for sure nowadays. Orion supports plugins. Everything supports vst in 2012, but Reason: guess why

[chk071]

By the way, reason will never support vst. Not because they don't want it, but because they can't: as soon as reason hosts vst it will crash immediately (weakness of code, i guess?).

That's the second time i read this. Where did you get that information from?

He didn't. He likes making things up to feel better about his point

At least it looks like it, as i would think only Reason's developers would have access to that info, and they're probably not allowed to talk about it if it would've happened either, not to say they wouldn't talk about it, as it would be pretty bad marketing.

[PB2000]

Reason is "rock solid" only as a standalone software. The fact they introduced "REs" proves they wanted to make a vst host out of it.

Wait a minute....you mean Reason is "rock solid".....as it was designed?!? Get the F*&^ out of town. Who would have expected that?

The fact that the introduced Re's is because they got to the point to where they felt comfortable with both hardware and software power and integration in the Reason environment. They've never had any intent to introduce VST hosting nor should they. There are more than enough users that want to work exclusively with Reason or via Rewire to worry about VST's.

Not true. The claim was: "you wanted vst? We give you RE", so tons of fanboys (who just the day before were all against vst) started to dream about alchemy RE, omnisphere RE, kontakt RE...
You will never see such instruments in reason: REs are only very light and simple effects or synths. Infact you download them like apps, few megabytes and quite different from original vsts versions... They are just racks made by others rather than PH, not plugins.

Who cares what they are called? They work in Reason as advertised for Reason users. If you don't want them, don't use them.

So what if people wanted VST's? I want a Lexus for the price of a Yugo. What they wanted were the effects and instruments, not the VST technology. It just so happened that you only knew of VST technology and have wanted your investment to work in Reason.

Maybe you won't see those EXACT titles in Reason but I will bet the farm you will see equivalents that are just as popular. Reason is too well supported and marketed with a huge user base. Dedicated Re's for ONE DAW will be very popular to developers once they get use to the SDK and it has a couple generations of development.

Time will tell whether Re's will become very global in mass deliveries. IMHO, I can see what the Props see in Re's and they are onto something pretty stellar.