Roland JV-1080 finally, as virtual instrument!

[fmr]

Ok, wait - *how* many different FX algorithms are available in the MFX section? Oh.. *78* (90 in the XV-5080). Maybe this wasn't the only MFX that had it's parameter ordering changed?

How do we determine this?

Experimentation... we'll need to test several parameters for each FX type to see whether they are in the obvious place, or whether they might have been reordered, and if so, figure out the order in the source SYX and the plugin's new order, and again, handle each transposition accordingly.

Fun stuffs!

This sucks... An example of bad product planning from Roland. Sorry that you have to go through all this PITA stuff

[Ingonator]

I'd be very interested in that too, i have a feeling though that (as you and others have mentioned) it might not happen, and that the System-8 is actually their "modern" final take on it.

Using a signal analyzer i just found that the Supersaw in System-8 plugin only seems to produce 5 detuned Saws, not 7 like in the real thing and in several other synths that try to mimic the Supersaw.
U-He Diva still seems to include the best JP-8000 oscillator with all original waveshapes (not just the Supersaw). In Diva my favorite filter in combination with the JP-8000 oscilator is the Uhbie filter.

A shame that Roland does not get the Supersaw done right with their own synths...
System-8 might be a great synth on it's own but not a proper JP-8000 replacement.

[sinemotor]

Ok, wait - *how* many different FX algorithms are available in the MFX section? Oh.. *78* (90 in the XV-5080). Maybe this wasn't the only MFX that had it's parameter ordering changed?

oh That is interesting! I'm not really familiar with the XV-5080 but are single patches using more than 1 MFX or is it in the Performance Mode only ? Also, for the plugin's presets : they seem to come from the XV-5080 so do they have another MFX config since they are not using the XV MFXs ?

[D-Fusion]

I'd be very interested in that too, i have a feeling though that (as you and others have mentioned) it might not happen, and that the System-8 is actually their "modern" final take on it.

Using a signal analyzer i just found that the Supersaw in System-8 plugin only seems to produce 5 detuned Saws, not 7 like in the real thing and in several other synths that try to mimic the Supersaw.
U-He Diva still seems to include the best JP-8000 oscillator with all original waveshapes (not just the Supersaw). In Diva my favorite filter in combination with the JP-8000 oscilator is the Uhbie filter.

A shame that Roland does not get the Supersaw done right with their own synths...
System-8 might be a great synth on it's own but not a proper JP-8000 replacement.

I have the System 1 which has the same superwave that S8 has and i always find it weird sounding compared to the JP8000/8080.
It sounds more muted/Dark and has a annoying flanging sound.

Even my JD-Xi sounds so much better with the built in effects and 12Pole filter and some resonance and if i want i can add 3 of them even if it is not needed.

[beely]

oh That is interesting! I'm not really familiar with the XV-5080 but are single patches using more than 1 MFX or is it in the Performance Mode only ? Also, for the plugin's presets : they seem to come from the XV-5080 so do they have another MFX config since they are not using the XV MFXs ?

The effects per patch are 1 MFX setting, 1 reverb, and 1 chorus (then there are some other things like an overall system EQ).

For performances, you have the same effects resources you have to share (not a problem with the plugin, of course!)

The 1080 had a few banks of presets. The 2080 contained all those banks, plus some extra ones. The 5080 contains all those, plus an extra bank.

So the first few 5080 present banks are the same as the earlier JV1080/2080, it’s only one extra bank of 128 patches that are 5080 only.

[fmr]

@ beely

I compiled already some preset banks. Stil have to sort them. Do you want me to post the links here or just send a PM to you?

[beely]

Thanks, I guess post them here, and it gives some others the opportunity to add to the collection - I’ll go through them, and convert them into a compiled download when everything is ready...

[beely]

I've got the data in the 1080 plugin format mapped out, apart from a 4Kish block at the end of each patch.
..
There does appear to be data in this last unknown block, as it varies in the preset patches, but I don't think it's data that is used in the plugin, as everything that appears in the plugin is pretty much accounted for. It could be remnants of the data layout from the Fantom - arpeggio data, chord data etc - there are a bunch of blocks it could be, but none of those are used in the plugin so I can likely just initialise this to default values in the conversion without problems - and the data doesn't give any useful clues to help figure out what it is (eg, names, or obvious parameter values that I can use to figure out what it is.)

This last block *will* need to be decoded. I was investigating the chorus block and finding that although the chorus block is there as expected from the XV/Fantom address layout, the parameters from here are *not* used in the plugin - changing the chorus parameters *does not* update the values in the chorus block as expected - in actual fact, these value are stored elsewhere - in this last unknown block.

As I go through and check and map the parameters, the layout of this last block should reveal itself, so that's good news at least - I don't like leaving stuff a mystery...

[gentleclockdivider]

Even my JD-Xi sounds so much better with the built in effects and 12Pole filter and some resonance and if i want i can add 3 of them even if it is not needed.[/quote]

Are you talking about the 'supernatural synth engine' supersaw ?
Because that is sample based and not math .generated

[gentleclockdivider]

D-fusion
quote

Even my JD-Xi sounds so much better with the built in effects and 12Pole filter and some resonance and if i want i can add 3 of them even if it is not needed.

unquote

Are you talking about the 'supernatural synth engine' supersaw ?
Because that is sample based and not math .generated

[Ingonator]

I have the System 1 which has the same superwave that S8 has and i always find it weird sounding compared to the JP8000/8080.
It sounds more muted/Dark and has a annoying flanging sound.

Even my JD-Xi sounds so much better with the built in effects and 12Pole filter and some resonance and if i want i can add 3 of them even if it is not needed.

At the moment Novation UltraNova is my only harware synth close to a Supersaw/Hypersaw without using samples (i sampled a Virus tI when i owned it) and i posted some of my current experiences in this other thread:
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 3&start=15

I also created comparable patches in both Roland Cloud System-8 and U-He Diva (with the JP-8000 oscillator) where Diva at least concerning the raw osc sound is closest to the real thing (which is different with the filtered sound as it does not have a dedicated JP-8000 filter).

Anyway i do not want to derail this thread with that kind of discussion. On the other hand i still hope for a dedicated JP-8000/8080 emulation in Roland Cloud.
As mentioned earlier here with 4 detuned layers i had also created a Supersaw inspired patch in JV-1080 plugin (which is more different to the real thing than the other approaches just mentioned).

[tristaned]

Ingonator, beely, I'm amazed by the wealth of information and resourcefulness you share here. Looking forward for the results. It's very appreciated.

[D-Fusion]

Even my JD-Xi sounds so much better with the built in effects and 12Pole filter and some resonance and if i want i can add 3 of them even if it is not needed.

Are you talking about the 'supernatural synth engine' supersaw ?
Because that is sample based and not math .generated[/quote]
Yes

The Reason i like it more than my System 1 is the filters in the JD-Xi which are emulations of the Jupiter 8, Prophet 5 and moog + it's own filter and they all sound great

I Wish the System 1 and 8 had the same filters that my JD-Xi have and the same supersaw.
I guess the problem with the System 1 is that it doesn't have free running Oscillators which give it that phasey ugly supersaw sound.

[trusampler]

Will Roland add import to this one can only hope so

[Ingonator]

I Wish the System 1 and 8 had the same filters that my JD-Xi have and the same supersaw.
I guess the problem with the System 1 is that it doesn't have free running Oscillators which give it that phasey ugly supersaw sound.

In System-8 i found that it only has 5 detuned Saws opposing to 7 in a real Supersaw which makes a difference too. The original Supersaw was quite special with an additional HPF included in the Osc waveshape and i am not sure how far this is implemented in the System-8/System-1. I might compare a sample of the raw waveform to that in the raw waveform in the Diva JP-8000 Osc. Of course the sound of the filter could have a big influence too.

Concerning phasing that could indeed be a problem. If i use the "Density" feature in the 3 Oscs of my Novation UltraNova (which works like a Hypersaw/Supersaw as mentioned earlier here) i use the phase set to free running which leads to much nicer results. UltraNova also offers using Osc drift for each of the 3 Oscs.

FWIW the JV-1080 plugin like the XV-5080 and several other Roland ROMplers with the same PCM engine offers the "analog feel" parameter and also the "Random pitch" parameter in the Oscs to add random detuning to the oscs and voices.