Live 12 or Bitwig 5.1

[SLiC]

....various core capabilities of Bitwig for basic production work are more advanced than Live.

Live 12 has a few production advantages as well, that is why this game never ends

Set Key/scale aware/fold to scale
Better midi editing
Midi Comping
Groove Pool
Better automation (pre-set curves etc)
Better hardware integration
Stacked Detail View

Having both I love this game as I can't loose

[liquidsound]

Fabfilter (my most used VSTs) just updated to support CLAP...and the pendulum swings
Of Couse nothing to stop Live adopting CLAP...I wouldn't be surprised eventually.

I’m not qualified to discuss CLAP but it’s obvious that if M4L can’t manage CLAP, that alone would be a problem for Ableton to implement something not functioning across the ecosystem.

[liquidsound]

....various core capabilities of Bitwig for basic production work are more advanced than Live.

Live 12 has a few production advantages as well, that is why this game never ends

Set Key/scale aware/fold to scale
Better midi editing
Midi Comping
Groove Pool
Better automation (pre-set curves etc)
Better hardware integration
Stacked Detail View

Having both I love this game as I can't loose

Plus, if something is missing, M4L can provide an immediate solution until further integration could be adopted by Ableton.

[pdxindy]

I can highly recommend you to get hands-on and extensively test Bitwig's instruments yourself.

Phase-4 is an excellent synth! I do wish it had the new filters though.

I think some people's opinions about the Bitwig instruments are outdated.

Polymer is amazing these days. It's come a long way since it's introduction and with the addition of the Bite Osc and the new Filters, plus the upgraded voice stacking, Polymer is as good as any 3rd party synth. I get great sounds from Polymer. Lots of characterful tones, noisy, crunchy, gorgeous sonic goodness. Being able to use Segments as the Amp Env also adds a lot of capability.

[audiouser720]

Users of Live, and both Bitwig will appreciate both having quality editing. Live is quick, I used it since 2011. However, I use Bitwig now just because there are some important things that I like. Its sampler has built in granular which is sick, the grid, operators, and plugin sandboxing while also reading intel plugins on my silicon mac. Live is good too, its really comparing Porsche to Ferrari.

So which one is the Porsche and which one is the Ferrari please?

[ghettosynth]

Users of Live, and both Bitwig will appreciate both having quality editing. Live is quick, I used it since 2011. However, I use Bitwig now just because there are some important things that I like. Its sampler has built in granular which is sick, the grid, operators, and plugin sandboxing while also reading intel plugins on my silicon mac. Live is good too, its really comparing Porsche to Ferrari.

So which one is the Porsche and which one is the Ferrari please?

I dunno, but Reaper is the Willys Jeep of DAWs.

[liquidsound]

Users of Live, and both Bitwig will appreciate both having quality editing. Live is quick, I used it since 2011. However, I use Bitwig now just because there are some important things that I like. Its sampler has built in granular which is sick, the grid, operators, and plugin sandboxing while also reading intel plugins on my silicon mac. Live is good too, its really comparing Porsche to Ferrari.

So which one is the Porsche and which one is the Ferrari please?

What matters is the driver

[audiouser720]

Users of Live, and both Bitwig will appreciate both having quality editing. Live is quick, I used it since 2011. However, I use Bitwig now just because there are some important things that I like. Its sampler has built in granular which is sick, the grid, operators, and plugin sandboxing while also reading intel plugins on my silicon mac. Live is good too, its really comparing Porsche to Ferrari.

So which one is the Porsche and which one is the Ferrari please?

I dunno, but Reaper is the Willys Jeep of DAWs.

Lol, so is it. They definitely look alike

[muzicxs]

Fabfilter (my most used VSTs) just updated to support CLAP...and the pendulum swings

Thanks for mentioning! This is FabUlous news!

[audiouser720]

Users of Live, and both Bitwig will appreciate both having quality editing. Live is quick, I used it since 2011. However, I use Bitwig now just because there are some important things that I like. Its sampler has built in granular which is sick, the grid, operators, and plugin sandboxing while also reading intel plugins on my silicon mac. Live is good too, its really comparing Porsche to Ferrari.

So which one is the Porsche and which one is the Ferrari please?

What matters is the driver

Well well, somebody doesn’t watch much F1…
Besides, Ferrari has much higher value, better performance and reasonably more prestigious. Have no doubts, I won’t be saying no if someone throws their shitty Porsche to me lol.

Sorry for OT anyway. And yes, it is the driver that matters (in our World). Carry on. It’s been interesting to read opinions as I still haven’t decided.

[mholloway]

Every so often I check in with Bitwig to see if dragging automation nodes still feels like moving your mouse cursor through quicksand -- that is, sloooow and sluggish and annoying as hell.

And every time, they still do. And I keep on using Live.

[liquidsound]

Every so often I check in with Bitwig to see if dragging automation nodes still feels like moving your mouse cursor through quicksand -- that is, sloooow and sluggish and annoying as hell.

And every time, they still do. And I keep on using Live.

It was not my experience with BW... v4.3.1

[mholloway]

Every so often I check in with Bitwig to see if dragging automation nodes still feels like moving your mouse cursor through quicksand -- that is, sloooow and sluggish and annoying as hell.

And every time, they still do. And I keep on using Live.

It was not my experience with BW... v4.3.1

I'm testing on 5.0.11 and they are as sluggish as ever. Literally just tried it out. It's a murky heavy soup, those nodes are swimming through.

Automation editing also lacks additional features that Ableton has, such as being able to select a range and then immediately shift that full range up or down (with points being created automatically at start and end of range). Stuff like that saves a ton of extra clicks and really speeds up automation envelope work.

[liquidsound]

Every so often I check in with Bitwig to see if dragging automation nodes still feels like moving your mouse cursor through quicksand -- that is, sloooow and sluggish and annoying as hell.

And every time, they still do. And I keep on using Live.

It was not my experience with BW... v4.3.1

I'm testing on 5.0.11 and they are as sluggish as ever. Literally just tried it out. It's a murky heavy soup, those nodes are swimming through.

Automation editing also lacks additional features that Ableton has, such as being able to select a range and then immediately shift that full range up or down (with points being created automatically at start and end of range). Stuff like that saves a ton of extra clicks and really speeds up automation envelope work.

OK. I had no idea that it could get worse with the update. Is that the same if you adjust the points in the Panel editor?

[mholloway]

Every so often I check in with Bitwig to see if dragging automation nodes still feels like moving your mouse cursor through quicksand -- that is, sloooow and sluggish and annoying as hell.

And every time, they still do. And I keep on using Live.

It was not my experience with BW... v4.3.1

I'm testing on 5.0.11 and they are as sluggish as ever. Literally just tried it out. It's a murky heavy soup, those nodes are swimming through.

Automation editing also lacks additional features that Ableton has, such as being able to select a range and then immediately shift that full range up or down (with points being created automatically at start and end of range). Stuff like that saves a ton of extra clicks and really speeds up automation envelope work.

OK. I had no idea that it could get worse with the update. Is that the same if you adjust the points in the Panel editor?

It hasn't gotten _worse_ with any recent update, it's just always been this bad / slow to move automation nodes around. Been this way since day one, version one.