KVR Audio

rghvdberg · Post by **rghvdberg** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 9:22 am

Compyfox wrote:Sorry to "burst your bubble of positive vibe", and sorry for being a thorn in your side for a bit, but were the musicians in question even informed of this beforehand?

I asked in the thread

Where is this written on the OSC pages, that you can "buy the music, and therefore further fund the Challenge"?

Nowhere, we are working out the details.

Was this addressed in the rule set of the OSC, that your tracks "will be uploaded and be monetized", and is there an off-hand known "opt out" for the participants?
Is this where the recently added Cash Price comes from in the first place (which in turn gathers more interest of course, since... "money!"?

That money was from anonymous private donation

I'm not an OSC regular (I'm just not good at sound design), so I'm taking an outside view on this whole topic. But if I'd be in the position to join the OSC (since I have confidence in myself), I'd be hesitant just because of this.

Again, you are asked before I upload. If the tracks are uploaded by mistake (I was given ok by bjporter). Than I will remove them ASAP. Just let me know.

And if I'd find somebody pull this with the Mix Challenge without asking the initiators first (read: contact one of my fellows or me directly), I'd be more than ticked off.

So to me - this is not about "spreading the word" and "having fun", at least not in the matter you claim it would be. This is turning into a bigger business at this point.

I think you over estimate the money that is being made on these tracks.

I mean... it's not like you pay "streaming fees" from this income at SoundCloud, or webserver fees - since the OSC page is on a Google Server. Unless I'm wrong with that notion and I just don't see the bigger picture.

Don't get all paranoid.
January is almost over. I uploaded the tracks on the <STRIKE>9th</STRIKE> 23rd. They were in the stores a few days later.
I've put in a track of my own in December. Just to test it out.
Now let's see how much money there's made.
Note: I'm pretty sure the statistics aren't finished yet.

screenshot-secure.boep.nl-2017-01-30-10-13-44.png

It's in Dutch, but I don't think I need to translate 0.00

[EDIT] got the date wrong

rghvdberg · Post by **rghvdberg** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 9:51 am

phace wrote:Just wanted to say that it would be cool if each entry track was labelled with a genre like "experimental" or "dnb", I know most of the entries are usually experimental but I think it would still be nice to see the genre for each entry because usually I might only want to hear one genre and dislike hearing too much experimental music (sorry), Just a suggestion..

Good one, but the creator of the song should provide the genre/tag he would like to add to his song.
I can (must even!) choose at least 1, and maximum 3 labels for the entire playlist/album

Here they are :

Alternative
Blues
Children's Music (my songs ;p)
Classical
Country
Dance
EK 2008 <-wtf?
Electronic
Folk
Hard- &Jumpstyle
Hardcore
Hip-hop/Rap
Jazz
Karaoke
Christmas
Latin
Love Songs
Musical
Dutch
New Age
Party Hits
Pop
R&B/Soul
Reggae
Rock
Sinterklaas <- you might not wanna google this
TV
WK 2010 <-wtf?

Furthermore I can (optionally) tag each songs with multiple tags.
Tags to choose from:

2step
Accordion
AcidHouse
AcidJazz
AcidTechno
Acoustic
Acoustic Hardrock
Acoustic Metal
Acoustic Rock
Adult
AdultAlternative
African
Afrobeat
Afropop
AltCountry
Alternative
Alternative Metal
Alternative Rock
Ambient
AmbientBreakbeat
Americana
Arabic
Asian
Australian
Avantgarde
Ax
Axé
Bachata
Balearic Trance
BalearicBeat
BalearicChillout
Ballet
Ballroom
Baroque
Bass
BeatsBreaks
Bebop
Bengali
BengaliFilm
Bhangra
Big Band
BigBeat
BigRoom
BlackMetal
BlueEyedSoul
Bluegrass
Blues
Blues rock
Bohemian
Bossa Nova
Brass
Brazilian
Breakbeat
Breaks
Britpop
Brokenbeats
Bubbling
Cajun
Calypso
Cantopop
Caribbean
Carol
Celtic
Chamber
Chanson
ChemicalBeats
Chill Out
ChillHouse
Chinese
ChoirClassical
Choral
Choro
Christian
ChristianPop
ChristianRock
clarinet
Classic Rock
Classical
ClassicHouse
Club
Comedy
ComicOpera
Concerto
Contemporary
Cosmic Grooves
Cosmopolitan
Country
Creole
Crossover
CrossoverJazz
Cuban
Cumbia
Dance
Dancehall
Dark
Darkcore
DeathMetal
Deep House
DeepTrance
Detroit
Devotional
Disco
Dixieland
DoomGroove
Doommetal
Doowop
Downbeat
Downtempo
Dreampop
Drum N Bass
Dub
DubbyDisco
Dubstep
Dubtechno
Duitstalig
Early Rave
EarlyJazz
EasternEuropean
Easy Listening
Eclectic
EclecticHouse
EDM
ElectricGuitar
Electro
Electro House
Electrofunk
Electronic
Electropop
Emo Rock
Engelstalig
Epic
EpicTrance
Ethnic
Ethno
Eurodance
EuropeanMediterranean
Experimental
Experimentele Rock
Fado
Fantasy
Fitness Training
Fitness Workout
Flamenco
Folk
Folk-Pop
Forró
FreeJazz
Freestyle
French
Frevo
Funk
Fusion
Garage
Garage House
Gemengd Koor
German
GermanFolk
Glam Rock
GlitchHop
Goa
Gospel
Gothic
Gothic Metal
Gregorian
Grime
Groove
Grunge
Gypsy
Happy Hardcore
Hard Dance
Hard Techno
Hard Trance
HardBass
Hardcore
HardHouse
HardJazz
Hardrock
Hardstyle
Harpsichord
Hawaii
Heavy Metal
Hindi
Hip-hop/Rap
HonkyTonk
Hoorspel
Horror
House
IDM
Independent
IndianClassical
Indie
Indie Nu Disco
Indie Pop
Indie Rock
Indiepop
IndieSoul
Indietronica
Industrial
Inspirational
Instrumental
International
Irish
Italian
Italo
J-Pop
JamaicanSka
Japanese
Jazz
JazzPiano
Judaica
Jumpstyle
Jungle
karaoke
Kayokyoku
Kids Hits
Kinderkoor
Kizomba
Klezmer
Koor
Latin
Latin House
Leftfield
Lieder
Light
LightClassical
Lounge
Mandopop
March
Meditation
Mediterranean
Merengue
Metal
Mexican
Middle Of The Road
MiddleEastern
Minimal
Minimal House
Minimal Techno
Modern20th21stCentury
Musical
Nashville
NativeAmerican
Nederhop
ederlandstalig
Nederpop
NeoSoul
New Age
NewWave
Noise
Noisepop
NoiseRock
Nordic
Norteño
NorthAmerican
NorthernSoul
Nu Disco
NuJazz
NuMetal
Oldschool
Opera
Operette
Orchestral
Organ
Pacific
Pagode
Percussion
PhillySoul
Piano
Pop
Popdance
Poppunk
Poprock
Post-grunge
Post-Punk
PowerBallad
PowerMetal
Progressive
Progressive Breaks
Progressive House
Progressive Rock
Progressive Trance
Psychedelic Rock
Psytrance
Punk
Punkrock
Qawwali
R&B/Soul
Radio House
Ragga
RaggaMetal
Ragtime
Rai
Rap
Rap Rock
Rave
Reggae
Reggae House
ReggaeFusion
Reggaeton
Rock
Rockabilly
RocknRoll
Romance
Roots
Rumba
Russian
Salsa
Samba
Schlager
Sci-Fi
Sci-Fi Fantasy
Score
Sertanejo
Shoegaze
Singer Songwriter
Ska
Slowcore
SmoothJazz
Soca
Soul
Soulful
SoundEffects
Soundsofnature
Soundtrack
SouthAsian
SouthernRap
SpaceAgeBachelorPad
Spacerock
Spoken Word
Stage & Screen
SteelBand
Surf
Suspense
Swamp Blues
Swing
Symfonische Metal
Symphonic
Symphonic Rock
SynthPop
Tamil
Tango
Tech House
Tech Trance
Techno
TechnoTribal
Teen Pop
Tejano
Tex-Mex
TexasBlues
TexMex
Traditional
Trance
Trap
Tribal
Triphop
Tropical
TropicalHouse
TrumpetOrgan
Turkish
TV
VariétéFrançaise
Vocal
Vocal House
Vocal Trance
Western
Western Swing
World
Worldbeat
Yoga
Zouk

rghvdberg · Post by **rghvdberg** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 11:19 am

zarf wrote: 2) I believe in good faith that if there is any money raised it will go back to OSC

Or I might decide to buy a Ferrari

Which would be a nice prize for the osc btw.
In true fashion of the OSC you'll have to 'synthesize' it yourself.
http://www.revell.com/model-kits/cars/8 ... I8fnlekVt0

Auplant · Post by **Auplant** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 1:02 pm

I'll produce all day and night if there's a chance of winning a Ferrari (jasinski will still hand me my ass back over to me though).

rghvdberg · Post by **rghvdberg** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 1:28 pm

phace wrote:I'll produce all day and night if there's a chance of winning a Ferrari (jasinski will still hand me my ass back over to me though).

afaik jasinski (and z.prime) quit the osc

they both drive a Ferrari already ..

that last one might be not true

Auplant · Post by **Auplant** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 2:07 pm

those guys quit?? Damn.. z.prime was my personal favorite sound designer from that... I can understand that people may have other commitments though :/

Compyfox · Post by **Compyfox** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 2:23 pm

Oh, mini answers...

rghvdberg wrote:I asked in the thread

Which thread? This overcrowded one?

rghvdberg wrote:Nowhere, we are working out the details.

If you did this since December, the details should have been "worked out" since November already. IMO and all that.

rghvdberg wrote:That money was from anonymous private donation

Fair enough...

rghvdberg wrote:Again, you are asked before I upload. If the tracks are uploaded by mistake (I was given ok by bjporter). Than I will remove them ASAP. Just let me know.

The issue is not the communication after the challenge is over. It's the lack of communication PRIOR to any challenge.

I mean, in this case... wouldn't I have visited this thread out of chance again (just to keep with with any possible cross promotion to the other challenges here on KVR), I wouldn't have known that "somebody" (in this case, you) uploads tracks to Spotify and iTunes.

Let's be honest here - who of the participants of recent months really knew that without checking a random post in this thread?

Now if I'd be good songwriter and upload my own stuff to Bandcamp and co to gather some spare change, and then somebody comes along like "hey, your tracks are now on Spotify and iTunes, they go for 1USD each, we have these and that download values - hey - it's for the OSC"... I'd be like "you wot mate?!".

The rules for the Mix Challenge are different - here, only the client ultimately gives green lights for off-branch distribution of "his/her" creation/production... portfolio's are mostly accepted and considered okay/"fair game" (if the artist in question knows about that, and no money is involved).

But if I'd see something like that, without interaction with the participants and the headmasters WEEKS IN ADVANCE... Then my patience has worn thin.

rghvdberg wrote:I think you over estimate the money that is being made on these tracks.

Maybe I do - but I see a "bigger picture" than "oh hay, more reach".

And transparency is key in this, especially if this turns into way more things like the possible planned "merchandise" and what have you.

rghvdberg wrote:Don't get all paranoid.
January is almost over. I uploaded the tracks on the <STRIKE>9th</STRIKE> 23rd. They were in the stores a few days later.
I've put in a track of my own in December. Just to test it out.
Now let's see how much money there's made.

I'm not paranoid - I'm skeptical, and I do question possible routes of the Challenge (which is what this thread is all about).

Show us the values from one month after the upload of the OSC stuff from BOTH Spotify and iTunes... then we're talking. Showing off your own track as "test range" doesn't contribute to this particular discussion, neither do unfinished statistics.

My opinion is out in the open...
I think it's up to the OSC headmasters at this point, how to properly handle this.

brainzistor · Post by **brainzistor** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 5:35 pm

rghvdberg wrote: Again, you are asked before I upload. If the tracks are uploaded by mistake (I was given ok by bjporter). Than I will remove them ASAP. Just let me know.

OK, let me clear some things straight away because I was the 4th place and my track is there.

NOBODY asked me for anything. Did someone PM-ed me, talked to me directly?
The answer is: NO.

Am I upset? NO.
But someone might be if his track gets uploaded without his/her approval.

I literally found out about the whole thing randomly, just stumbled on it.

So, claiming that people were asked beforehand is simply NOT true.
That's my case, I don't know for others, go PM them if you want to find out.

bjporter · Post by **bjporter** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 6:33 pm

@compyfox @brainzistor thank you for bringing up these issues - we will have them sorted out ASAP. This is a cool new opportunity for people to get their songs out on a medium which escapes many artists (it takes a fair amount of work for rghvdberg to get them up too). The intention is not to make money, and never has been with OSC.

@compyfox, we don't plan prizes to line up with every contest (just like how monthly synth choices are not pre-planned). Prizes / things just happen, and I put them up. The OSC is very casually organized.

rghvdberg · Post by **rghvdberg** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 8:02 pm

brainzistor wrote:
rghvdberg wrote: Again, you are asked before I upload. If the tracks are uploaded by mistake (I was given ok by bjporter). Than I will remove them ASAP. Just let me know.

OK, let me clear some things straight away because I was the 4th place and my track is there.

NOBODY asked me for anything. Did someone PM-ed me, talked to me directly?
The answer is: NO.

Am I upset? NO.
But someone might be if his track gets uploaded without his/her approval.

I literally found out about the whole thing randomly, just stumbled on it.

So, claiming that people were asked beforehand is simply NOT true.
That's my case, I don't know for others, go PM them if you want to find out.

I AM SO SORRY!
check your pm
I am truly sorry, major cock-up on my side

rghvdberg · Post by **rghvdberg** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 8:28 pm

@compyfox : I actually agree with you
I should have taken more care.

I'll tell you out in the open what I make from royalties from my band.
It's a local band, ok. But we (were) quite popular and still get airplay on local radio. I know, it's local. It's not world wide.
These are the tracks on Spotify. Didn't count them .. guess about 40 tracks
https://play.spotify.com/artist/11teASf311tZUb6gCKkmBJ

I make up to 10 euro a year from this. This includes radio and tv play.

Just looked it up, it's €8,17

If you want those mix challenge songs on Spotify I can make that happen too.
I charge $50 dollars an hour.

Joking, I'll do it for free of course.

rghvdberg · Post by **rghvdberg** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 8:35 pm

btw this is how you make money with your music.
Selling tickets

bjporter · Post by **bjporter** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 8:46 pm

Unfortunately, the camera man didn't show the keyboardist much (rghvdberg), but here is a snippet from the vide of him rocking out:

rghvdberg · Post by **rghvdberg** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 9:14 pm

I'm purposely hidden from cam.
Some people think it's because I'm too ugly.
Other people think it's because I'm actually deadmau5 and don't want my cover blown.

Compyfox · Post by **Compyfox** » Tue Jan 31, 2017 10:19 am

bjporter wrote:@compyfox @brainzistor thank you for bringing up these issues - we will have them sorted out ASAP. This is a cool new opportunity for people to get their songs out on a medium which escapes many artists (it takes a fair amount of work for rghvdberg to get them up too). The intention is not to make money, and never has been with OSC.

If the intention is "no money involved", then why ask for 99c per song via iTunes? And isn't Spotify financed via commercials, and you have to pay fees to even "upload"? So there is something not quite adding up for me, sorry.

Most important at this point however, is to get as TRANSPARENT as possible. Write what's going on, what is planned, how this will be handled, who the income will be used, etc. With an opt-out for participants.

This needs to be addressed in an own section on the OSC page. And honestly, at this stage I also like to know who is in charge of what. You know the MC page, maybe something like this for the OSC page as well.

bjporter wrote:@compyfox, we don't plan prizes to line up with every contest (just like how monthly synth choices are not pre-planned). Prizes / things just happen, and I put them up. The OSC is very casually organized.

Same for the Mix Challenge.

What threw me off however, is that the "cash price" was available for a couple of months. And then this "sudden announcement" with iTunes and Spotify...

rghvdberg wrote:I'll tell you out in the open what I make from royalties from my band.
It's a local band, ok. But we (were) quite popular and still get airplay on local radio. I know, it's local. It's not world wide.

...

Just looked it up...

Okay if we ignore royalties from Airplay, I find that number a bit hard to swallow. As mentioned above, SPOTIFY runs with ads if you have a free account. So I don't think that you as musician see such a minimal amount.

Then again, I'm skeptical in nature - it's your band, I don't care.
At this stage, I only care about what up with this move regarding the OSC.

rghvdberg wrote:If you want those mix challenge songs on Spotify I can make that happen too.

No, and I already wrote the reason why.

The productions are the intellectual property by our virtual clients. They say what is allowed and what is not. The track (stems) is only in "rotation" during the challenge, and nobody is allowed to make money out of it at a later state. Unless it's an official deal between the "client" and one of the "participants" (which is a topic that is out of our hands)

In fact, I'm still find tuning the new Mix Challenge FAQ, not to mention the rule set "port" over to the official page, and I'll definitely point that particular topic out.

Keeping the track (participant edit) on SoundCloud and Co, or on a Portfolio, can be considered "grey zone" (though it's mostly fine). But the final word has always the client in question.

One-Synth-Challenge: General discussion thread