One-Synth-Challenge: General discussion thread

[Compyfox]

Okay, let me get one thing straight - before any further commentary about that flies in and will be beaten to death.

As of this moment, I only monitor THIS PARTICULAR THREAD... no individual OSC challenge threads, no other "off-Challenge threads", no random chatrooms. So I'm only aware of this thread, and as mentioned several times, I found the "Spotify/iTunes commentary" out of pure chance.

With that said, most of the stuff just being thrown at me, can be completely discarded.

Hypocrite much?

Not at all... I was "asked" who I am (in a not really friendly manner if I may add) to "question and call out" the OSC rule set and their users. I merely asked in return who the chain of command is currently.

And just incase you didn't know, ...>snip<

I did indeed not, hence the question. Since you're currently a bit "pushy", I think you're fully aware how many participants the OSC has per month. I am as well (from browing the official OSC page), but I don't monitor each name and can make connections as to "who-is-who".

BTW: Photonic currently holds the same position over at the Mix Challenge - if we need to do another comparison that is.

What makes using a Slack channel a business?

If you have bothered to investigate instead of just casting wild guesses at how it is run you would know that the general Slack channel and the new channels created for each month's specific OSC are open. They let me in and I am not in any management hierarchy.

Again - I only monitor this thread currently. So I don't know of any "channels" what you speak off. And I mainly only know such systems for small companies. (never liked them to be honest)

BTW Headmasters are people who are in charge of boarding schools

head·mas·ter
ˌhedˈmastər/
noun
noun: headmaster; plural noun: headmasters
(especially in private schools) the man in charge of a school; the principal.

Ooooh... penny pinching... let me do that as well!
Headmaster can also mean principal and/or manager, but also Chief Technical Officer (or CTO in short)

German is a bit more "broad" on this topic:
http://www.dict.cc/deutsch-englisch/Direktor.html

You are allow to post.
I am not required to bow down and thank you for deigning to bless us with your time though.

Sorry, but the way the "questions" were directed at me, was in NO WAY okay.

How would you feel if I just bulled into the mix challenge and started making demands on how it should be run? Given that I had never before participated and made no indication on participating in the future?

Let's just say you wouldn't be the first, because I "do" have had some candidates that did exactly that. I still wait for them to join after I altered rules (after internal discussions) to please these particular individuals.

Also... who said that I "never intended" to join, or whatever... in fact, I tried several times just to get back into songwriting again - with synths I have/use/am familier with. But lack of time and lack of skill resulted in "nope, didn't happen". I think there should still be my posts in the last "SynthMaster" challenge...


And in fact, BJPorter should have a Tweet at this point, that is a shout out from the Mix Challenge Twitter account, connecting Togu Audio Line with the OSC.... again...

Plus the cross-linking from the Challenge threads (with each Challenge that has it's roots in the OSC) and the references to the other KVR Challenges (OSC and MCSC). In fact, the latter is something that BJ and I talked about in private and established to back each other up.

But yea, I only know of the OSC since "yesterday" and "never moved a finger" for it...

Just because you or someone else did not see the information about the plans for this does not mean they were intentionally kept from you.
Many channels of communication are open to those who wish to make use of them. Failure of an individual to participate in those channels is not a valid excuse for not knowing what is being discussed.
You can't claim lack of getting a phone call caused you not to get information when you refuse to power on your phone. The same way you can't claim lack of seeing posting about something when you refuse to read the available information.

Er... stop it right there, then read the first sentence of my post again, etc.

Once more - I am NOT AWARE of any channels you "speak" of, since I am not jumping into every minute detail of an OSC thread. But for the sake of calling it a truce, I just dug through the current challenge and saw one tiny link, in the middle of a lot of crazy styled text, directing to https://one-synth-challenge.herokuapp.com/

So I guess this is the "channel" you talk about. This in turn however, needs a "signup". So it's not open to read for everyone (without signing up). And if you don't want to do that (sign up), you're ultimately left out of any information. Plain and simple.

So... the argument doesn't count IMO that it "has been talked about" and "if you don't use the available channels, it's not our fault" (see your telephone analogy).

As example:
If I turn off my phone but still use WhatsApp with a Group Chat... I am "temporarily" not informed of any new happenings. My fault indeed. But once I turn it back on ever so often (for the sake of this example: let's say every 2-3 days -- for the sake of this thread, if there is bigger movement around the turn of the month), I still get the information. So I'm only to blame for not "seeing this sooner", but it's still a channel I regularly monitor without jumping hoops.

In case of the "Slack Channel" - if I'm not signed up to that, I don't get that piece of info



To get back on topic - this particular issue/topic has to be discussed in public however, not behind another "sign up" or internal referees only (except it's something that needs to be fine tuned first, before it can be discussed/declared in public). The "One Synth Challenge" still uses the tag "KVR One Synth Challenge" - so IMO, as KVR user and interested participant (whether or not I am currently able to currently join, or ever, has no relation in this case) want to read about it on KVR primarily... not anywhere else where I have to "sign up first".

If you want to be independent, be independent - but then please remove the KVR tag. And then there is nothing to debate about "we talked about this on other channels".


It's like "want to read more about the News we just scratched upon on TV, sign up to our social media accounts and read the rest". Or as the German criminal television movie series "TATORT" did a couple of times already "oh... you want to know the rest of the story, and the other murderer... sign up to our homepage - but be quick, the info is gone in two weeks".

That's not "inclusive". This simply doesn't work.



Before you ask:
The Mix Challenge is still on KVR Audio, since I didn't install a Forum or anything of that sorts yet into the official homepage... yet (I have my reasons, hackers being one). We (the Mix Challenge) started on KVR Audio, we want to include the community. So the main point of discussion is still(!!!) "here" on this forum.

A "good forum fellow" would have quietly sent a PM or either BJPorter or rghvdberg asking for clarification prior to creating a big drama in the general discussion thread.
Or maybe bothered reading other OSC threads where people were thanking rghvberg for taking the time and trouble to provide this increased exposure to their songs.
I guess that was too untransparent for you being in a public OSC thread and all.

Right... push the blame away.

Why should "quietly send" a PM about something that is openly discussed (and needs to be as well)? Also, did you ignore the feedback from a couple of users so that that they were never even contacted in the first place?

Furthermore - once more - I mainly monitor this thread, not the individual Challenges.

That is a completely disingenuous notion. Again, just because they failed to read the information that this was purposed and put in practice does not mean that the information about it was not available. Their failure to read does not equate to a lack of transparency.

Okay, now you also accuse Wagtunes, brainzistor and (if I understood that right) fluffy_little_something of being too stupid to read...

I can't and won't speak for them, I can only speak for myself.

Again, disingenuous. It was posted about, and thanks for doing it were given. Nary a word of dissatisfaction at the time was uttered.

Once more... it was (according to you) written on the SLACK CHANNEL... something that is hidden behind a sign up and not accessible to the public otherwise. I can't (and won't) comment on the individual threads, only on this general discussion one. And after I saw the screenshots, I was like "what is happening?! This is not okay now, is it?!".

Could you please stop riding on that argument "it has been talked about"?
It's it's only the tip of this particular iceberg!

Communication is not just one person talking. You actually have to stop and listen, maybe do some research and maybe even realize that you are making a mountain out of a molehill(sometimes).

I could now counter with "look who's talking currently" though...
But jumping to conclusions is always simpler. Meaning, I'm super simple and lazy on top of that.

There, roasted myself!

What evidence do you have that the numbers presented are not truthful or factual?
Or is this just wild speculation that does nothing but attempt to besmirch the character of the person providing the numbers?

*sigh*

Again, if the tracks have been first uploaded on 9th January, then we can't see any values for "one month" for the OSC yet. Since there is no data to gather.

The "values" for rghvdberg's band are (just) looking a bit strange to me, especially since there seem to be 40+tracks uploaded, and if the band is "popular in the Netherlands" not to mention still in "rotation via Radio", on top of that Spotify being commercial driven... I kind of expect an higher output. So something does not add up - to me(!).

Then again, there is just no comparison between rghvdberg's band, and the OSC entries. The only thing that should interest us, are the OSC uploads. Nothing else - but we don't have suitable info yet.

After that - what I'd like to see (once the information is available), is statistics. Then I'd also like to know what(!) will be done with the accumulated funds.


Topic blown out of proportion, maybe.
Valued questions - to me they are.
Discussion in progress - definitely.


I once more ignore the "Slack Channel Chat Discussion" part with the follow up paragraphs...

And finally back to this little gem,

Good job, rghvdberg.
This is how you do and promote "your" challenge.

I had thought a good bit about one day joining the mixing challenge. I think it would be a wonderful learning experience, much the same as I consider the OSC.
However your behavior and false accusations in this thread have now cemented that a contest that you are in charge of is something I would not wish to ever participate in.
Take that as you will.

Take that as you will, but I ask yet again "who are you?", since there is no "hierarchy" available on the OSC page that shows that (unlike the Mix Challenge page). I assume you're one of the hosts/initiators (however you want to call it), hence the "Slack Channel Chat" and your currently... let's call it strong impression... towards me and my commentary.

One thing that really didn't swing with me, is how I was talked to by rghvdberg. I might not be a "regular" (as you call it) of the OSC, but I'm definitely one of the old KVR Audio cats and do more than just support "the OSC community" (something I really took down the wrong pipe as you can imagine). And once again, I still don't know the "position" of rghvdberg, and why he spoke for BJPorter - who I know for a fact that is 1/3rd of the OSC.

Imagine why this pressed all the wrong buttons with me.




I can't hold you off of not participating with the Mix Challenge. That's totally up to you.

But let me get one thing straight... we (and by that I mean Eric, Satya and I - though currently it is me that lifts 97% of the Challenge) are always transparent with things (hence our official webpage, and the level of detail put into it, which took me about half a month to get on the road btw). We reach out, we ask questions (that are sadly often unanswered), we listen to request and comment on them if they're possible to "port" or pull off. We don't use a Slack Channel thing, we don't answer exclusively on Twitter or Facebook only (we don't even have a Facebook Page - yet).

We made clear since day 1 of the "revival" of the Mix Challenge (there was one before, where I was also already part of it) that general Q's/FRs/hate-mail are part of our Gossip Thread, though I do answer Q's (if they're easy to answer) in the regular threads as well - even copy them over for everyone to see. If the same questions come up over and over, they turn into a FAQ. You should know the drill.


That is the big difference between the OSC and the Mix Challenge IMO. Dare I even say that we complement each other. In fact, a lot of OSC participants offered their productions (even ones not related to the OSC) to the Mix Challenge to keep it alive. And you have no idea how thankful I am for that (in fact, I always do extra cross promotion if an OSC track is the current month's challenge!).

In turn, they (participants, clients, interested parties and sponsors) are then treated with respect, are always informed by us without jumping hoops.




Yes - I came on strong with my commentary. But honestly, I ask once more... if somebody did this with you and your content, without even contacting you in the first place, and you don't know where to "look" for "hidden commentary" (quote: The Legend of Zelda - "It's a secret to everybody") - what would be your reaction? I'm just one concerned voice.

And please, not another "but we talked about this"... see this from the eyes of somebody that shows no interest in individual Challenge threads with Synths the Person is unaware off. See the commentary by the couple of users so far that said "wait, I wasn't contacted - what the heck?!".


If anything - we forum users talk about this.
And that is the best thing you can ask for!




If you (want to) change your mind about the "Mix Challenge", you're always welcome. We don't block participants, we don't mock them either. Though we are strict on rules and violations.

If not (changing your mind)... well... I'd say "wasted opportunity", but this is down to each own person (like I said, I tried to join the OSC a couple of times, I scratched my productions and didn't submit anything - but I at least "tried").



I hope I made myself clear this time around.









Also: Mix Challenge #29 is live, client is ThePresent with his 5th Place entry from OSC#88.
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 2&t=478313

[Frostline]

Okay, let me get one thing straight - before any further commentary about that flies in and will be beaten to death.

As of this moment, I only monitor THIS PARTICULAR THREAD... no individual OSC challenge threads, no other "off-Challenge threads", no random chatrooms. So I'm only aware of this thread, and as mentioned several times, I found the "Spotify/iTunes commentary" out of pure chance.

And let me get this straight.
THIS PARTICULAR THREAD is not the only place where OSC things are discussed.
Just because YOU are not aware of them is no one's fault but YOUR'S
In each and every OSC thread it talks about joining the discussion on Slack and invites all to join. YOU choose not to join. That is your choice. You also choose not to read in the previous month OSC thread right here in this FREE forum that you ARE ALREADY A MEMBER OF all of the things I am now currently or previously talking about.

Things like where Photonic (I believe you are aware of them as a participant and as one of the only five people currently affected by any of this) saying and I quote

Hi rghvdberg,
GREAT ! Thanx for making this happen

Now lets see whats happen.

in regards to the tracks being listed on iTunes and Spotify.

You choose not to read that publically and freely available information.

BTW: Photonic currently holds the same position over at the Mix Challenge - if we need to do another comparison that is.

What are we comparing? They are contests, some people are good and win often. Don't really see your point there.

Ooooh... penny pinching... let me do that as well!

No. Correcting. It is similar to confusing prize and price. There are words that are not the correct term for a given situation even with similar meaning.
BJPorter is not my headmaster.

German is a bit more "broad" on this topic:

I do not care. This is a forum that is in English. German rules do not hold any sway.

Sorry, but the way the "questions" were directed at me, was in NO WAY okay.

Your attitude in your very first post was not okay either.
I've seen others apologize, where is your's?

Also... who said that I "never intended" to join, or whatever...

Strawman. I never once said, wrote or implied that YOU intended or did not intend to ever participate in the OSC. That is all in your ego. I was not describing you, I was describing how I would appear if I behaved that way and asked how YOU would feel about it.

But yea, I only know of the OSC since "yesterday" and "never moved a finger" for it...

Again strawman. Please quote where someone wrote where you have done nothing for the OSC. I see places where people have asked what you have done, but no claims that you had not done anything.

Once more - I am NOT AWARE of any channels you "speak" of, since I am not jumping into every minute detail of an OSC thread. But for the sake of calling it a truce, I just dug through the current challenge and saw one tiny link, in the middle of a lot of crazy styled text, directing to https://one-synth-challenge.herokuapp.com/

This is all a discussion about what happened in last month's contest.
Does looking in this month's contest really make logical sense?

So I guess this is the "channel" you talk about.

Again, nope. The monthly OSC thread that actually has the relevant tracks in it.

This in turn however, needs a "signup". So it's not open to read for everyone (without signing up). And if you don't want to do that (sign up), you're ultimately left out of any information. Plain and simple.

Again, the choice thing. You choose not partake in the free discussion group. But then whinge you missed information (information which was in fact on THIS KVR forum don't forget). It's very similar to hearing the call to dinner, not going to dinner and then later whinging that you are hungry. Most folks grow out of that.

To get back on topic - this particular issue/topic has to be discussed in public however, not behind another "sign up" or internal referees only (except it's something that needs to be fine tuned first, before it can be discussed/declared in public). The "One Synth Challenge" still uses the tag "KVR One Synth Challenge" - so IMO, as KVR user and interested participant (whether or not I am currently able to currently join, or ever, has no relation in this case) want to read about it on KVR primarily... not anywhere else where I have to "sign up first".

Oh yet again, divert the issue to not being your fault because of the scary "sign-up" to get information that was already on the forum you are a member of already.

You were rude.
You failed to read free available to all information. You use people as an example who seem satisfied with the way it was handled. None of this is your fault at all.
I see.

Right... push the blame away.

Hi Kettle.

Furthermore - once more - I mainly monitor this thread, not the individual Challenges.

Again, your choice. I can't gripe about not seeing an article in Der Spiegel if I don't read that news publication can I? Or if I did I would be a bit of a bell end really.

Okay, now you also accuse Wagtunes, brainzistor and (if I understood that right) fluffy_little_something of being too stupid to read...

Oh what a dirty nasty strawman that is. NOT ONCE EVER HAVE I CALLED ANYONE"S INTELLIGENCE INTO QUESTION in this discussion.
You sir owe me an apology for that. Because what you attribute to me is an out and out LIE.

Failure to read something makes zero judgement on a person's cognition.
Could be they skipped over it. Could be they never read that far in the thread. Could be a whole hosts of things other than what you accuse me of saying.
You are a cad and a bully.
If anyone's status should be in question as to being fit to run a competition I say sir it is yours.

Once more... it was (according to you) written on the SLACK CHANNEL...

Again, LIES.
Nowhere did I say specifically and exclusively to the Slack channel that any information about this could be found. YOU keep making incorrect assumptions.

The "values" for rghvdberg's band are (just) looking a bit strange to me, especially since there seem to be 40+tracks uploaded, and if the band is "popular in the Netherlands" not to mention still in "rotation via Radio", on top of that Spotify being commercial driven... I kind of expect an higher output. So something does not add up - to me(!).

Because of all the experience you have with the Netherlands music buying habits?
Usually when one calls into question provided facts in a discussion one needs more than just 'feelings'. Things like actual counter data.

After that - what I'd like to see (once the information is available), is statistics. Then I'd also like to know what(!) will be done with the accumulated funds.

I'd like a pony. Can I haz?

Take that as you will, but I ask yet again "who are you?", since there is no "hierarchy" available on the OSC page that shows that (unlike the Mix Challenge page). I assume you're one of the hosts/initiators (however you want to call it), hence the "Slack Channel Chat" and your currently... let's call it strong impression... towards me and my commentary.

Nope. I'm a complete nobody. But hey, its an open discussion so us nobodies can talk all along with you more 'special' folks.
Again, assumptions.....tsk tsk.
My impression of you is based 100% on your attitude and out right lies in this thread.
I really enjoy the OSC and I will take issue with ANYONE who seems to be disturbing my possible future enjoyment of it.
You have attacked people who I have respect for as decent people.
I think you are a pushy bully and could see you easily abusing any power you are given simply based on our brief interaction here.

One thing that really didn't swing with me, is how I was talked to by rghvdberg. I might not be a "regular" (as you call it) of the OSC, but I'm definitely one of the old KVR Audio cats and do more than just support "the OSC community" (something I really took down the wrong pipe as you can imagine). And once again, I still don't know the "position" of rghvdberg, and why he spoke for BJPorter - who I know for a fact that is 1/3rd of the OSC.

You bullied in here throwing accusations without having a full grasp of any of the actual facts and wonder why your reception by the person you accuse is not warm and welcoming. Seriously?

Then you attribute out right LIES to me.

Yeah, you are the Saint and paragon of societal virtue here.

But let me get one thing straight... we (and by that I mean Eric, Satya and I - though currently it is me that lifts 97% of the Challenge)

Wow, what a joy you must be to work with.
Do you even comprehend how you sound?

are always transparent with things (hence our official webpage, and the level of detail put into it, which took me about half a month to get on the road btw). We reach out, we ask questions (that are sadly often unanswered), we listen to request and comment on them if they're possible to "port" or pull off. We don't use a Slack Channel thing, we don't answer exclusively on Twitter or Facebook only (we don't even have a Facebook Page - yet).

Pat yourself on the back some more.
I still hold the opinion you are a rude bully.

.. see this from the eyes of somebody that shows no interest in individual Challenge threads with Synths the Person is unaware off.

Brutally honest if you can't even bother to keep up with the current month's discussion I really don't care at all what your or anyone else's opinion of the OSC is. If you don't have enough interest to actually seek facts about a subject before forming an opinion I have no interest in hearing your uninformed opinion on this or any other topic.

I scratched my productions and didn't submit anything - but I at least "tried").

If you feel that way, good for you.


Also: Mix Challenge #29 is live, client is ThePresent with his 5th Place entry from OSC#88.
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 2&t=478313[/quote]

Leaving that, for while I may not like you at all, I think your contest is really nice and wish it the best.

[RichardSemper]

First of all I want to thank compyfox for raising this important issue.

As a regular participant in this competition, I saw the posts by Rghvdberg offering to publish these tunes through spotify etc.

I thought it a good idea (still do), and its generous of him to offer his time and effort for this. I am certain it is not in any way for personal gain, but in hopes of furthering the reach of OSC.

(Previously I had thought a nice idea would be a sort of 'best of' compilation from past OSCs put on cdbaby for free distribution. I would be happy to pay the submission price for this. Any revenues from itunes, spotify etc could go directly to the producers of the tracks. I ran this by the moderators. It was never taken further however, as it would prove quite complicated to organise.)

Of course I assumed that the producers of each track would have to be contacted directly for permission before any track could be published this way. I was very surprised to find that this did not happen.

Compyfox quite rightly makes some very good points (though perhaps somewhat exaggerated). There are some important issues of principle here:- Intellectual Property, and Transparency.

I don't agree that a post in the general thread, the submissions threads, slack or any other channel are sufficient notification for participants tracks being republished in any form. Or that it is each individuals responsibility to read all of these to be aware of what is being done with their intellectual property.
I can imagine a scenario where say I could be away from the forum for a few months and come back to find my tracks had been used in all kinds of ways without my knowledge or consent if these arguments held.

It seems to me there are two legitimate approaches to this:
1. It is written into the rules for the competition, to make it clear to all participants that this may happen. In this case entry to the competition would be a tacit acceptance of this.
2. The producers of the tracks concerned should be contacted directly by email or pm to request their permission. Failure to respond should be considered a denial of that permission and NOT an acceptance.

Personally I would vote against no 1 as I feel this could be a disincentive to people to join in the competition. I would be fully in favour of no 2, as this leaves each of us in full control of our own material.

There is also the issue of transparency. What happens to any revenues, who overrsees it etc?

Please people, can we put the swords and daggers away now and discuss this in a reasonable manner.

[Compyfox]

Okay, I will ignore most of the yapping as this is taking us absolutely nowhere.

This sparked a (much needed) discussion, and the commentary so far agrees to what I've been pointed out. So I can't be too far off. Ultimately only the initiators of the OSC (I only know of one, and that is BJPorter) are to stand trial for this. Not any "freelance workers" or "nobodies" who have no final say - unless they worked "at the behest of" them, or spoke "in their name" (which these people really shouldn't IMO).

I can only speak for myself, I stated my concerns, I will stick to them.

I will also take the blame for being (felt) aggressive and a pain in the butt (which I am, I'm not sometimes being called "Devil's Advocate" by some of my friends/clients for nothing). But I'm definitely no bully, neither a liar.

You choose not to read that publically and freely available information.

Read the commentary by the other people that criticized the very same as I did. I think RichardSemper summed it up best:

I don't agree that a post in the general thread, the submissions threads, slack or any other channel are sufficient notification for participants tracks being republished in any form. Or that it is each individuals responsibility to read all of these to be aware of what is being done with their intellectual property.
I can imagine a scenario where say I could be away from the forum for a few months and come back to find my tracks had been used in all kinds of ways without my knowledge or consent if these arguments held.

In fact, this is nothing else than what I've been pointed out previously (however not worded in this way). How you interpret it, is down to your own opinion. And since you already made up your mind about "me" as a person, I can argue whatever I want... it will hit the next nearest wall and fall on deaf ears.

After that - what I'd like to see (once the information is available), is statistics. Then I'd also like to know what(!) will be done with the accumulated funds.

I'd like a pony. Can I haz?

The questions as to "who collects the money", "why does he collect it", "did the users in question agree to it" and "what will be done with the income" are legit and need to be answered/presented in public. End of story.

We talk about intellectual property here, and if "somebody" (as happened previously, or might happen in the future) dares to override copyrights and agreements, the people in question have a right to know as to "why" and "how".

In fact, some people could even take legal action - and as somebody that has some experience in this field (thanks to lawyer contacts)... you do not really want to touch that ground...

No. Correcting. It is similar to confusing prize and price. There are words that are not the correct term for a given situation even with similar meaning. ...

German is a bit more "broad" on this topic:

I do not care. This is a forum that is in English. German rules do not hold any sway.

Broaden your horizons, please... There are more languages than English. And these languages can have multiple meanings to the very same word.

Nobody likes wise crackers.

BJPorter is not my headmaster.

He might not be your "headmaster" or "boss" - but he ultimately has the final word as 1/3rd of the OSC (again, I'd love to know who the other 2/3rds of the initiators are).

Your attitude in your very first post was not okay either.
I've seen others apologize, where is your's?

Okay, so putting a very valid question about this whole thing (my first post since the screenshot, not the second one) needs to result in an apology?

Wow... where the #savespaces at?!

Again strawman. Please quote where....

Twisting and turning of words, I explained what I do and that I am a cross promoter.
Not answering that any further... (again, leads to nowhere)

This is all a discussion about what happened in last month's contest.
Does looking in this month's contest really make logical sense?

See RichardSemper's quote I made, and his post...

Okay, now you also accuse Wagtunes, brainzistor and (if I understood that right) fluffy_little_something of being too stupid to read...

Oh what a dirty nasty strawman that is. NOT ONCE EVER HAVE I CALLED ANYONE"S INTELLIGENCE INTO QUESTION in this discussion.
You sir owe me an apology for that. Because what you attribute to me is an out and out LIE.

No sir, YOU owe an APOLOGY TO US...

Failure to read something makes zero judgement on a person's cognition.

Yet you implied with your last commentary that I purposely ignore what has been written in other threads, and that I'm too stupid to "educate myself first" as well. The people I mentioned were not informed whatsoever either (even if stated otherwise), and/or didn't read the commentary from the last thread (because it was just scratched upon, or reasons unknown - I'm not them, I can't speak for them). So that has to be taken as "you didn't inform yourself, you're to blame - stop being stupid and spread lies".

This does not work!
Neither is this an objective discussion.

At the very least, this is profiling who has the better "counter arguments" - or e-penix.

You are a cad and a bully.
If anyone's status should be in question as to being fit to run a competition I say sir it is yours.

I am slowly starting to take massive offense in that.

So my posts are (constantly!) considered aggressive (sure, I have a "non-hivemind" opinion, and I barely use smileys), I am considered a thorn in people's side. I can live with that. But I do take issue's with being called a fraud, cad, bully and worse (the lines are thin at this point).

Which brings me to this:

Wow, what a joy you must be to work with.
Do you even comprehend how you sound?

Those that work with me, or those that I work/have worked with, have nothing but high praise for me. There are some rough spots here and there (read: I'm no saint - neither want I to be), but I am professional, I am always helpful (even beyond saying "okay, that's about enough at this point"), I put my hands in the fire for friends and fellows, ...

If you have a made up mind about me - fine. I can't change that. Opinions/rear ends and all (everybody has them).

But I DO TAKE OFFENSE in being called a liar, bully, cad, idiot, pompous asshole, <insert more insults here>, etc... this happened a bit too much for my taste recently.


I've not called anyone names in this thread or in the recent discussion - I don't need to pull myself that low. You have the f*cking decency to revert down to primal instincts and go that route, rather than being an adult and discuss things objectively.



You defend the OSC as if it's "your creation", speak in the name of the imitators and therefore jeopardize any good relations with them. And this is where I will draw the line!

Once more, unless you reveal yourself to not be a "nobody" and actually one of the three pillars of the OSC initiators (I know that V'ger was once among the founders - though IIRC he doesn't hold that position anymore, now BJPorter is mostly handling the challenge) - then you might(!) have the right to criticize me, although not in the way you do (which is being unprofessional between "Challenge fellows").

If not, I'd f*cking take a step back at this point!



If you have a personal issue with me, handle this via PM. If you happen to be in my area, visit my studio and say it to my face (you're not the first one I'm telling this) - if you dare to move away from the "public stage" that is.

Or involve the admins/mods if you think I did the following: derailing, insulting, general abusive behavior. This is what the report function is for - yet I didn't anything of that.


Thin ice, "Frost"... very, very thin ice...

Also: Mix Challenge #29 is live, client is ThePresent with his 5th Place entry from OSC#88.
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 2&t=478313

Leaving that, for while I may not like you at all, I think your contest is really nice and wish it the best.

"Not sure if..."

If you think it's "nice" - then join the Challenge. Maybe even as "client" - because then you'd directly interact with me (integrity checks, BTS planning, etc). Then you can see if I'm still such an ignorant person like you claim that I am.




@BJPorter: PM incoming!

[wagtunes]

FWIW, I have had personal contact with ComfyFox who has gone out of his way to help me get up to speed with Real Guitar, LPC and the rest, all of which appear on my prog rock project to some degree.

He has been nothing but professional and helpful. In fact, I'll go as far as to say he has been one of the very few people here (the rest of you know who you are so thanks) who HAVE gone out of their way to help and support me.

He made a valid point, one that Richard and I both agree with as I am sure others do as well. This "idea" can turn out to be really great. But it needs organization and structure and 100% transparency. Anything less and not only will it fail but may also infringe on people's rights.

I may not be the most talented musician in the world (my string of failures for 40 years is living proof of that) but I've dealt with the industry long enough to know what you can and can't do. And taking people's music with their expressed permission is one thing that a first year law student will tell you that you can't do.

So I for one appreciate those who are actually looking out for the greater good of the OSC community.

And with that, I'm going back into my cave.

[Frostline]

This sparked a (much needed) discussion, and the commentary so far agrees to what I've been pointed out. So I can't be too far off.

Never once stated that you did not have a valid point.
I only pointed out your terrible attitude and communication style. And then defended myself from your vicious libelous attack.

Ultimately only the initiators of the OSC (I only know of one, and that is BJPorter) are to stand trial for this.

Stand trial? Hyperbole much?

But I'm definitely no bully, neither a liar.

You made untrue statements and attributed them to me.
What is the definition of a liar in Germany?
In most countries a liar is a person who makes untrue statements. This you have done in this thread.
I still hold to my liar assessment.

In fact, some people could even take legal action

Google some libel law.
Read what you find and then look at what you have done in this thread.
You just can't go around attributing statements to people that they did not make.

Broaden your horizons, please... There are more languages than English. And these languages can have multiple meanings to the very same word.

Again, I do not care. If this forum were to be conducted in Japanese then Japanese word usage would be the proper way to conduct conversations. It does not matter how a word is used in a language that is not being used in a discussion.

Okay, so putting a very valid question about this whole thing (my first post since the screenshot, not the second one) needs to result in an apology?

Valid questions do not require an apology.
Notice that I have asked no one else to apologize for anything.
Just you.
For your attitude towards other members of the OSC and for your libelous statements against me.

Wow... where the #savespaces at?!

Were you not the first to whinge about attitudes you received?
Oh woe, the old-timer was not treated with the respect they feel they are owed.
As an aside, had the conversation been about technical intricacies of LUFs or similar I would have treated you with great respect, because I do think you are vastly more knowledgeable about a plethora of music related subjects compared to me.
Doesn't give you any special right to be a jerk to people though.

Okay, now you also accuse Wagtunes, brainzistor and (if I understood that right) fluffy_little_something of being too stupid to read...

Again either quote where I actually stated that, or admit you're a libelous liar.
There are only two choices there.
Either I stated it, or you are a lying cad.

@Wagtunes
@Brainzistor
@Fluffy_Little_Something
Please do not think what this 'person' Compyfox says is true in regards to my opinion on your individual intelligence.
I hold no ill will towards you three and I find it disgusting that this person is attributing statements to me that I did not make or imply that would impune upon your character just to better their position in an online argument.
This behavior is quite sad and I feel they owe all four of us an apology.

Yet you implied with your last commentary that I purposely ignore what has been written in other threads, and that I'm too stupid to "educate myself first" as well.

Again, a libelous statement, a LIE from a proven liar.
Not once have I questioned your or anyone else's intelligence.
Please stop writing lies about what I have written.
You attribute meanings to my statements that are not there. That is your subconscious at work, not mine.

So that has to be taken as "you didn't inform yourself, you're to blame - stop being stupid and spread lies".

You are spreading lies. It is a fact.
You choose not to be as informed about a situation as you easily could have been.
Whose responsibility are those two things if not yours?

So my posts are (constantly!) considered aggressive (sure, I have a "non-hivemind" opinion, and I barely use smileys), I am considered a thorn in people's side. I can live with that. But I do take issue's with being called a fraud, cad, bully and worse (the lines are thin at this point).

If these labels bother you then I suggest you start acting in such a way that those labels are no longer appropriate descriptors of your behavior.

But I DO TAKE OFFENSE in being called a liar, bully, cad, idiot, pompous asshole, <insert more insults here>, etc... this happened a bit too much for my taste recently.

Well, simple really. Don't lie. Don't be a bully. Don't act like a cad. Problem solved and the internet is a better place.

Once more, unless you reveal yourself to not be a "nobody" and actually one of the three pillars of the OSC initiators (I know that V'ger was once among the founders - though IIRC he doesn't hold that position anymore, now BJPorter is mostly handling the challenge) - then you might(!) have the right to criticize me, although not in the way you do (which is being unprofessional between "Challenge fellows").

Ah see, I have the right to criticize any and all whom I deem deserving of it.
I do not need YOUR permission, because you have no authority over me. Though you seem to behave like you do.

If not, I'd f*cking take a step back at this point!

Or what?
Are you making a threat? See I don't want to make a false statement about your intent, so I am asking. See that is the opposite of what you have done here by assuming you know my intent and then that somehow grants you the right to write lies about me.

If you happen to be in my area, visit my studio and say it to my face (you're not the first one I'm telling this) - if you dare to move away from the "public stage" that is.

Oh the brave keyboard warrior half the world away. Oh how I just tremble.
Talk about not acting as an adult or as a responsible forum member with a bit of authority.

Or involve the admins/mods if you think I did the following: derailing, insulting, general abusive behavior. This is what the report function is for - yet I didn't anything of that.

I was giving you time to correct your libelous lying statements before reporting you. Being a polite neighbor in the KVR neighborhood so to speak.
You don't appreciate the gesture, fine. I will report you for making libelous statements about a fellow KVR forum member once I am finished here if that is what you want. Just let me know.

Then you can see if I'm still such an ignorant person like you claim that I am.

Wow, it is like pathological with you isn't it?
The only person writing disparaging comments about your intelligence in the thread is you.
And with that, and with you, I am done.

@Richard S
I like your ideas for how to integrate the song uploads for the winners.
They only thing I might add is a suggestion that the 5 winners each month can contact (whomever is put in charge) between the 16th and end of the month if they want their tracks uploaded. Otherwise they are not uploaded. End of the month, those who opt in are posted.
Maybe put something on the main OSC page along the lines of it being an opportunity for participants to give back to the contest by allowing potential proceeds from the commercial distribution of their winning entries to be used to support the contest.
I do think any previous OSC winners would need to be directly contacted via email should this uploading idea go retroactive before any of their tracks are touched. And then only uploaded with confirmed approval

[wagtunes]

@Frostline

First off, I have no beef with you. But there is something I need to point out.

Here is a direct quote from you from page 202 of this thread.

Just because you or someone else did not see the information about the plans for this does not mean they were intentionally kept from you.
Many channels of communication are open to those who wish to make use of them. Failure of an individual to participate in those channels is not a valid excuse for not knowing what is being discussed.
You can't claim lack of getting a phone call caused you not to get information when you refuse to power on your phone. The same way you can't claim lack of seeing posting about something when you refuse to read the available information.

There is only one inference that one can take from this. That is the responsibility of each person here to seek out the information regarding this issue.

One cannot seek something out that one does not know about.

It is only by accident that I even know about what Rob has setup. Had I not come to this thread, I still wouldn't know about any of this.

It is the responsibility of those running the show to let the rest of us know what's going on. And that means through official communication, especially if it means using MY music.

So in this respect, I am sorry but ComfyFox has a legitimate beef with the quote above.

Personally, I don't care. But I cannot speak for everybody else.

In short, this thing was handled improperly. End of story.

Hopefully, everything will be corrected and we can move on from there.

[bjporter]

Thank you everyone for your input, it exploded quite a bit, I just hope we can all focus on the OSC.

The Spotify thing was from the start supposed to be a fun experience for winners (kinda like bragging rights perhaps?), of having their song on a harder to reach distribution. Rob came to me with the idea and I thought it was cool. I'm not going to accuse anyone of anything. It was never for gain, and getting artist permission was the first thing I brought up. Me and Rob had a miscommunication about who would contact who, but that's been solved.

Rob saw something exciting he offer and contribute to the OSC, and I thought it was a really neat idea.

No hidden agenda, no conspiracy, nothing. No profit motive. We're not even advertising the spotify link, it's just a small thing the winners can link to their friends and say "hey cool, I'm on spotify".

Full transparency will be given in form of a spreadsheet, and Rob will handle that (in the unlikely event it would make any revenue). Again, I stressed to Rob at the beginning, and he fully agreed, that full FULL 100% permission be given. We just had a simple miscommunication. We're both doing this out of love for music, and putting a smile on other people faces.

Thank you everyone for your input. Let's see how this goes, and perhaps we can do a OSC vote later based on feedback / experience.

I think we're all in this for the joy of music, and I hope we can get along. No hard feelings. Let's all move on please.

[wagtunes]

Thank you everyone for your input, it exploded quite a bit, I just hope we can all focus on the OSC.

The Spotify thing was from the start supposed to be a fun experience for winners (kinda like bragging rights perhaps?), of having their song on a harder to reach distribution. Rob came to me with the idea and I thought it was cool. I'm not going to accuse anyone of anything. It was never for gain, and getting artist permission was the first thing I brought up. Me and Rob had a miscommunication about who would contact who, but that's been solved.

Rob saw something exciting he offer and contribute to the OSC, and I thought it was a really neat idea.

No hidden agenda, no conspiracy, nothing. No profit motive. We're not even advertising the spotify link, it's just a small thing the winners can link to their friends and say "hey cool, I'm on spotify".

Full transparency will be given in form of a spreadsheet, and Rob will handle that (in the unlikely event it would make any revenue). Again, I stressed to Rob at the beginning, and he fully agreed, that full FULL 100% permission be given. We just had a simple miscommunication. We're both doing this out of love for music, and putting a smile on other people faces.

Thank you everyone for your input. Let's see how this goes, and perhaps we can do a OSC vote later based on feedback / experience.

I think we're all in this for the joy of music, and I hope we can get along. No hard feelings. Let's all move on please.

[Frostline]

@Frostline

First off, I have no beef with you. But there is something I need to point out.

Here is a direct quote from you from page 202 of this thread.

Just because you or someone else did not see the information about the plans for this does not mean they were intentionally kept from you.
Many channels of communication are open to those who wish to make use of them. Failure of an individual to participate in those channels is not a valid excuse for not knowing what is being discussed.
You can't claim lack of getting a phone call caused you not to get information when you refuse to power on your phone. The same way you can't claim lack of seeing posting about something when you refuse to read the available information.

But did I anywhere in that statement or any other statement call your intelligence into question?

Let me ask you this Wagtunes.
Suppose it had been posted on the main OSC web page that winning tracks were going to be uploaded to iTunes starting with the challenge for Synth1.
Would you have probably seen it there?
How often do you actually go look at the main page other than to grab the new synth for the month? How much to you check to see if any rules or other information had changed?
I would guess odds are it might not be a top priority for you to carefully read all the rules and regulations each month to see if anything had changed.
Would that be a fair assessment?
So instead, it was posted both in the Synth1 thread and in the general OSC discussion thread so perhaps more people might see it and be made aware of it. Several folks did successfully see it (including me).
Who is responsible if you choose not to read the information?
I mean we are adults (mostly). How much personal responsibility should an adult take for keeping aware of issues that might affect them in a contest they volunteer to participate in?
In 3 out of 4 possible places where the information could have been provided to participants by the people in charge it was provided.
I honestly don't know how much more an adult should expect others to keep them informed.

[wagtunes]

@Frostline

First off, I have no beef with you. But there is something I need to point out.

Here is a direct quote from you from page 202 of this thread.

Just because you or someone else did not see the information about the plans for this does not mean they were intentionally kept from you.
Many channels of communication are open to those who wish to make use of them. Failure of an individual to participate in those channels is not a valid excuse for not knowing what is being discussed.
You can't claim lack of getting a phone call caused you not to get information when you refuse to power on your phone. The same way you can't claim lack of seeing posting about something when you refuse to read the available information.

But did I anywhere in that statement or any other statement call your intelligence into question?

Let me ask you this Wagtunes.
Suppose it had been posted on the main OSC web page that winning tracks were going to be uploaded to iTunes starting with the challenge for Synth1.
Would you have probably seen it there?
How often do you actually go look at the main page other than to grab the new synth for the month? How much to you check to see if any rules or other information had changed?
I would guess odds are it might not be a top priority for you to carefully read all the rules and regulations each month to see if anything had changed.
Would that be a fair assessment?
So instead, it was posted both in the Synth1 thread and in the general OSC discussion thread so perhaps more people might see it and be made aware of it. Several folks did successfully see it (including me).
Who is responsible if you choose not to read the information?
I mean we are adults (mostly). How much personal responsibility should an adult take for keeping aware of issues that might affect them in a contest they volunteer to participate in?
In 3 out of 4 possible places where the information could have been provided to participants by the people in charge it was provided.
I honestly don't know how much more an adult should expect others to keep them informed.

Here's what you're not understanding.

With regular contest rules, if one doesn't read, the consequences are no worse than being DQ'd from the competition. Annoying, but no big deal. Next time they'll know.

However, with something like this, we're talking about someone's music being used without their permission. And, if they should happen to leave the OSC, as I have actually done, thus giving me no reason to ever read anything about it ever again, they'll never know about this. Their music goes up wherever and that's it. They have no clue it's happened. In the meantime, what if this person would have objections to this being done?

Do you not understand the implications? That person COULD legitimately sue the OSC because they were never asked permission if their music could be put up for sale or whatever.

In this case, each person needs to be contacted as it involved their intellectual property. Any 1st year law student will tell you this.

I'm sorry if you can't see or understand this but it doesn't make the law any less clear. Informal posting of something without direct contact with the individual is not sufficient for something like this.

It has nothing to do with being an adult.

[wagtunes]

Let me finish by saying just one more thing and then I'm going to gracefully leave this conversation.

With the way this was initially setup, the assumption was a "yes" on the part of the music owner unless they said "no."

You can't do that with somebody else's property. You have so assume "no" until that person in writing says "yes."

That's the law when dealing with the property of another person.

And with that, honoring BJ's request, let's just move forward and put this behind us.

[Yeager]

This sums up exactly what I thought when I read the whole idea.

No hidden agenda, no conspiracy, nothing. No profit motive. We're not even advertising the spotify link, it's just a small thing the winners can link to their friends and say "hey cool, I'm on spotify".

[Compyfox]

I've now went ahead and reported Frostline for constant derivation of the thread's topic, on top "insisting things" I am clearly not and throwing around insults (name calling). It's been going on long enough.

In fact, some people could even take legal action

Google some libel law.
Read what you find and then look at what you have done in this thread.
You just can't go around attributing statements to people that they did not make.

Careful - because compared to you, I didn't use any form of insults at all, or tried to twist/turn words in my mouth (honest questions: have you been taken lessons from certain KVR users?!).



I called out this particular "mishap" (or however you want to call it), and questioned the involved "funds" - nothing less.

In fact, the users in question that you so graciously apologized so further down below, did say similar as me - in their own words. And not only did you figuratively jump me for that, you also insist that they "don't understand" what's happening.



I don't know where you're from - but I just sent this to BJPorter... and that topic is no matter to joke about. So read carefully as to "what could have been...".

Additionally - "legal action" can be taken by the users that were NOT ASKED prior to the upload. Just a short info from German Copyright Laws, which are one of the most brutal things if you're caught:

Uploading/Sharing a track, and may it only be 1kb of it, means unlawful redistribution of copyright material. At bar minimum, lawyers can ask for a couple hundred EUR, worst case scenario: raided house, taken equipment (you will NEVER see your PC's and HDDs again), 10k EUR amount of dispute bar minimum (plus additional lawyer costs - depending on the company/artist/representative in question), entry in certificate of good conduct (we have something like that over here) - additional: 20hours of community service (best case) or xyz amount of months in jail.

You folks, or rather the person that did this "at the behest of the OSC", poked a bee's nest...
Be happy that nobody went ahead and actually took legal action - because this is no laughing matter.



If you still think that I do not care about the OSC at all, or are "unhelpful" in any way... that's your prerogative. But you actively defend that move, which did put the OSC at risk in the first place!

Something that I have (agreeably) not made clear right from the start, since I worded it differently (or not at all). But definitely something that you seem to (IMO and all that) ignore.

Please do not think what this 'person' Compyfox says is true in regards to my opinion on your individual intelligence.
I hold no ill will towards you three and I find it disgusting that this person is attributing statements to me that I did not make or imply that would impune upon your character just to better their position in an online argument.
This behavior is quite sad and I feel they owe all four of us an apology.

No, you still owe an apology to us - and especially towards me after all the name calling - end of story.

This "person: Compyfox" has a real name behind an alias, an actual real person. No "avatar only" to talk to, and/or some random musician links that you can't even make connections to a "real person". So I'm not hiding.


What annoys me the most in this... you clearly wrote:

As an aside, had the conversation been about technical intricacies of LUFs or similar I would have treated you with great respect, because I do think you are vastly more knowledgeable about a plethora of music related subjects compared to me.

So as long as we're "on the same page/level/mental capacity/whatever you want to name it", there is room for an objective discussion. Otherwise... open season.

Because I'm otherwise a - and I summarize - "insensitive, bullying, lying prick".


Cool... [/sarcasm]

If these labels bother you then I suggest you start acting in such a way that those labels are no longer appropriate descriptors of your behavior.

You've been new to KVR Audio then (well, you're here since August 2016)... because no matter how certain users post - that have been "forever labeled" by people like you (a certain loud vocal minority), no matter how these labeled people changed over the years, no matter how friendly they have been throughout the years or still are/are now - they will always been shredded to pieces. Add to that what I just wrote in the last paragraph... this is adding up.

For certain users, it's definitely a feast... as it seems to be currently for your as well.

You didn't try to show me otherwise so far... so basically, I've now "made up my mind" about you... and that image I'm currently having, is not positive.

See any similarities yet?

I do not need YOUR permission, because you have no authority over me. Though you seem to behave like you do.

And you absolutely do not speak for the OSC and their initiators - end of story.
Yet in the way you write, you do...

And on the long run, that is a problem which might(!) result in further ones for BJPorter (one of the initiators of the OSC)...

Oh the brave keyboard warrior half the world away. Oh how I just tremble.
Talk about not acting as an adult or as a responsible forum member with a bit of authority.

Says one keyboard warrior to another.

So the open forum is your stage, and not PM's or face-to-face interaction (if we'd be at the same area) to actually "talk" and not just fling brown matter at another. *sigh* ...another one, sadly...

You don't appreciate the gesture, fine. I will report you for making libelous statements about a fellow KVR forum member once I am finished here if that is what you want. Just let me know.

I did not attack anyone, neither did I spread lies.
YOU insist that I did/still do, because I DID NOT read other threads than this or chat logs.

On top of that, you called me various names...


I fear nothing from you, honestly. And should I be booted off the forum (temporarily) - then thanks in advance for actively disturbing the Mix Challenge and it's community. Because then I'll loose access to the Challenge clients that I am in touch with via PM, interaction with companies (PM and open discussion), and I can not answer any questions directed at me via PM either.

If you feel confident that you need to do that - just to put your mind at ease - go ahead.
But ultimately only you are to blame for this.



At this stage - you not only play with "Challenge relations" (between the OSC and the Mix Challenge), you also play with the livelihood of another Challenge that ultimately brings traffic to KVR Audio.

Just because you feel that what has been said, is wrong (in your opinion) - and you don't like me and my attitude.

I guess we're just human beings with primal instincts after all...






I think I've said enough at this point.
I'm not welcome in here anymore.

[z.prime]

Side note. I've arranged a deal with Rob to only post z.prime tracks. Exclusive deal. He'll start with the worst track of all time... "images" which is a 15 minute evolving... well, tracker tune. He'll continue to post the rest of all my unfinished tracker tunes. Everyone wins! Well, except the listener. And me. But either way, everyone wins!