The All In One Source Bitwig Information & Speculation Thread

[ThomasHelzle]

If you followed this thread you got a rich assortment of little niggles that make people use or not use a host.
What's totally huge for one person is totally unimportant for another. For one PDC is da bomb and the next doesn't even care that it exists. One may use internal instruments and fx only while the next one doesn't even look at them.

We don't need 400 flavours of strawberry yoghurt either, but there they are

Variety is good.

Cheers,

Tom

[Ogopogo]

@Tronam.

Maybe. I don't really know about the habits of most "working producers." Content is a good point too. Push is definitely a big deal. People seem to love it and I'm eyeing it as well. I've got my fingers crossed it I can use it with Bitwig. They've said that it is just a midi controller so they can get it working but I still wonder if that means all functionally like using the browser.

As far as implementing all bitwigs features in ableton that may be tricky. There is a lot of basic sort of things like the tools and the histograms and stuff that Live would constitute really cloning bitwig down to it's bones. But maybe they can find thier own ways that work well enough.

And also, I've been thinking of bitwig "winning" this war by becoming the most popular, but if you think of it in terms of putting ableton out of business that really does seem unlikely. ...It'll just be a daw for old people. I'll be interested to see it play out. All of this conjecture about bitwig has cultivated a bit of an interest in the industry for me.

[Ogopogo]

If you followed this thread you got a rich assortment of little niggles that make people use or not use a host.
What's totally huge for one person is totally unimportant for another. For one PDC is da bomb and the next doesn't even care that it exists. One may use internal instruments and fx only while the next one doesn't even look at them.

We don't need 400 flavours of strawberry yoghurt either, but there they are

Variety is good.

Cheers,

Tom

Well not to really refute the main point that some people may prefer Live, what I remember seeing in this thread was mostly big stuff that can be added on, not so much little niggle stuff that one might prefer one way or the other. For example pdc - does it have it not, does it work or not, multiout vst - does it have it or not. And the bitwig approach to editing and all the little niggle areas does actually seem to me to be superior. I mean you get the tools, infoview, the histograms, and then so many little improvements like the fact that you have more real estate in the fx lane because the fx dont have titlebars on the top, and the little pluses that let you choose an effect right from the fxlane. So much stuff that seems to simplify every little action. I mean I'm sure there are always gonna be some people that don't like this or that, but for most people, assuming they are taking an objective and are willing to learn one or the other, bitwig just seems... better.


...I'm pretty much just flapping my mouth(hands) here.

[ThomasHelzle]

Well not to really refute the main point that some people may prefer Live, what I remember seeing in this thread was mostly big stuff that can be added on, not so much little niggle stuff that one might prefer one way or the other. For example pdc - does it have it not, does it work or not, multiout vst - does it have it or not. And the bitwig approach to editing and all the little niggle areas does actually seem to me to be superior. I mean you get the tools, infoview, the histograms, and then so many little improvements like the fact that you have more real estate in the fx lane because the fx dont have titlebars on the top, and the little pluses that let you choose an effect right from the fxlane. So much stuff that seems to simplify every little action. I mean I'm sure there are always gonna be some people that don't like this or that, but for most people, assuming they are taking an objective and are willing to learn one or the other, bitwig just seems... better.


...I'm pretty much just flapping my mouth(hands) here.

With the niggles I meant more stuff like one person dismissing a host because you couldn't tab through tracks. I've read a lot of such things in this thread that made me aware how extremely specific many people are with audio apps. And I'd almost bet you will find something in BWS that you hate and that I personally may either be totally uninterested in or even love.

It's like the perfect host discussion: it's not pointless because such a software does not exist but because humans are very very different in their definition of "perfect".

But I definitely am looking forward to how all this plays out too.

Cheers,

Tom

[Ogopogo]

Ah yes now I remember you saying that. And I guess what crazyfiltertweaker was asking about qualifies. Yeah it's true "perfect" doesn't really make sense but considering that almost everyone has a certain amount of adaptability and the approach of live and bitwig is similar it makes alot of sense to compare in this instance I think. So I'm still thinking that Bitwig could relegate Live to the backseat or maybe even make it into a "legacy" daw. But yeah, we have to just wait and see. And it depends heavily on whether Ableton can whip themselves into gear. I guess they've got every reason to, including a blueprint on how it can all work. The recent multimonitor support update i think shows that they are responding. I don't know myself, but I heard someone say that they had said before that that didn't fit their "paradigm." From my experience with daws whatever fits the paradigm is just everything that you can tack on without making the other features or the program as a whole too complex to use. Now that they have bitwig showing them that a lot of these things can be done, Live might not have much trouble standing up to the task.

[mholloway]

If you guys actually believe that Bitwig showing up will somehow turn Ableton, overnight, into a "backseat" or "legacy" DAW, you obviously have zero idea how the business world works.

This isn't competitive sports where both DAWs are playing in the finals next week. But apparently a lot of you think that's how the music software industry works. (And I can see why, what with Cubase making Logic obsolete, and ProTools making Cubase obsolete, and OH WAIT)

[Ogopogo]

Maybe I'm wrong, but that's a strawman, nobody said overnight, and nobody said it would, more like it could. And plenty of daws have gone out of business. There is no where near as much similarity between the daws you mentioned and between bitwig and ableton. It's really not a stretch say that they are almost the same thing, one being more fully featured than the other. Everything that survives has its own niche.

But hey, I guess it's more fun to make a caricature of another argument and go OMG LOL NO WAIT NOT.

[UncleAge]

And plenty of daws have gone out of business.

Remember Project5?

[SLiC]

And plenty of daws have gone out of business.

Remember Project5?

Bitwig studio looks a bit like project5!

[hibidy]

I dunno. Ableton might be clearing out their desks as we speak.

[Ogopogo]

And plenty of daws have gone out of business.

Remember Project5?

Bitwig studio looks a bit like project5!

Interesting. I just looked it up and yeah it does, at least in terms of gui layout.

I dunno. Ableton might be clearing out their desks as we speak.

Knowing when to cut your losses. It's an underrated virtue. Good on them.

[pdxindy]

The smartest thing Bitwig could do would be to have a function to convert back to midi from audio that was bounced in place, as Studio One does. With Bitwig it would make even more sense with their hybrid tracks. Considering all the other technologies and advanced functions in DAWs these days, this one is pretty basic. Bounce to audio in place, and then any movements or cuts to the audio region apply to a hidden underlying midi region as well. Then at any time, it can be converted back. I can believe Studio One is the only one to have done this (that I know of, maybe I'm wrong). I suggested it to Emagic at V6 of Logic.

My understanding is that Bitwig has a bounce in place function

[Ogopogo]

[elnn]

The smartest thing Bitwig could do would be to have a function to convert back to midi from audio that was bounced in place, as Studio One does. With Bitwig it would make even more sense with their hybrid tracks. Considering all the other technologies and advanced functions in DAWs these days, this one is pretty basic. Bounce to audio in place, and then any movements or cuts to the audio region apply to a hidden underlying midi region as well. Then at any time, it can be converted back. I can believe Studio One is the only one to have done this (that I know of, maybe I'm wrong). I suggested it to Emagic at V6 of Logic.

My understanding is that Bitwig has a bounce in place function

And he's talking about the reverse of it, bounce -> eat food -> bounce back to midi : )

Sounds quite cool, but considering (a) how much a bounced file can get scratched and injured, how viable is it? (b) having clips, is it not simpler to just duplicate a clip prior to bouncing?

[IncarnateX]

I only wonder how people who spend so much time at KVR as the ones in this thread ever will get time to actually make use of Bitwig once it is released?

Maybe it is actually better if it never will be released so we can have an excuse for posting instead of producing?