KVR Audio

haydxn · Post by **haydxn** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 9:18 pm

i believe that to be a better and more thorough transcription of what i was thinking!

i'm not disrespecting 869's comments at all. learning is a good thing. of course i do stand by my statement that tracktion is a different type of program, and just because it is 'easier' to do something with it, doesn't mean you're better off doing it in a program that requires more training to do so.

Lunch Money · Post by **Lunch Money** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 9:23 pm

Heh, actually I thought YOU said it better! I just wanted to say it differently so that all angles are covered.

869 · Post by **869** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 9:35 pm

Well, yes I like and appreciate alot what you said greg and the others too!

I never realy tried it like mentioned I guess and I think you all made me a little more currious to simply try by myself and see!

thanks alot for the quick and nice feedback you guys.

Lunch Money · Post by **Lunch Money** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 9:40 pm

We're nothing if not a bunch of swell guys.

Actually, I've been known to be a dick from time to time.

Cheers!

haydxn · Post by **haydxn** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 9:42 pm

i think people think that i'm probably quite nice too...

unless xg2 is around!

but he's gone now anyway

jens · Post by **jens** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 10:30 pm

haydxn wrote: but he's gone now anyway

nope - he just moved on...

foosnark · Post by **foosnark** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 12:29 am

yep, depending on what your standard is

Y'all have a point... but one of the first things I noticed about Tracktion was that the GUI doesn't look or act like a Windows app. (Or as far as I've ever seen, Mac, though it's been a long time.) ToolTips for example generally don't take up half the screen and chase your cursor around.

Also, what's standard about calling every VST plugin from instruments to reverb a "filter?"

valley · Post by **valley** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 12:49 am

foosnark wrote:Y'all have a point... but one of the first things I noticed about Tracktion was that the GUI doesn't look or act like a Windows app.

Neither do a lot of audio apps.

Also, what's standard about calling every VST plugin from instruments to reverb a "filter?"

originally I guess Jules did not intend to support vstis, so filter was as good a label as any.

jens · Post by **jens** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 12:56 am

valley wrote:
Also, what's standard about calling every VST plugin from instruments to reverb a "filter?"
originally I guess Jules did not intend to support vstis, so filter was as good a label as any.

and after all it's just a f**king name...

I mean: once you realize what a 'filter' is - who is narrow-minded enough to care about how it is called?

Jules could call it Djangadangadengedeng - as soon as you know what a Djangadangadengedeng is you can use it as good as with any other name - or do I miss something?

Rellik · Post by **Rellik** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 3:46 am

Personally, I'm really confused by all these "no learning curve" or "easy" remarks.

I've found it just the opposite. Sure, I guess you could say it's easy from the standpoint that it's perfectly simple to add instruments and effects and record MIDI and all... but it's not simple to actually WORK in at all.

There is a difference between USING an app and actually UNDERSTANDING, or GROKKING, it.

I have no beef with Tracktion. This is not an anti-Tracktion post. I think it's incredibly great that there's now another excellent free host for all those VST-starved people! I just honestly do not understand how it's easy to function in. I try to navigate in time and get all googly-eyed

I am having huge amounts of trouble predicting how the app is going to respond to my mouseclicks. I click once, the bar moves to that spot and it plays, I click again and it does it again, I click a third time and it stops? I have to click the note again to cut off the note preview, and i need to use the keyboard or switch tools to remove a note? The notes and velocities or CC automation cannot be edited in the same view?

One thing that really makes a lot to me is project management, though. It's not ideal for my kind of work, but I see how it would be great for people using mostly audio.

If I spent alot of time with it I would get to know how to use it in an actual real working sense, and I plan to do this, because even I have and love and use FL5 and have and love and experiment in and attempt to use energyXT, I've heard enough about Tracktion to give it some time and see if I can derive some benefit. But the fact is, that learning curve is fairly steep, which is the point of my whole post.

Improv · Post by **Improv** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 3:50 am

jens wrote:
valley wrote:
Also, what's standard about calling every VST plugin from instruments to reverb a "filter?"
originally I guess Jules did not intend to support vstis, so filter was as good a label as any.
and after all it's just a f**king name...

I mean: once you realize what a 'filter' is - who is narrow-minded enough to care about how it is called?

Jules could call it Djangadangadengedeng - as soon as you know what a Djangadangadengedeng is you can use it as good as with any other name - or do I miss something?

Or we could get around the name game problem by calling everything by numbers. Let's see, filters can be 48 for a start. As in "Damn it, Jens, do have to bury that song in 48s all over the place? Oh ya, 27 (volume) that too, will ya?"

Lunch Money · Post by **Lunch Money** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 5:18 am

Rellik wrote:Personally, I'm really confused by all these "no learning curve" or "easy" remarks.

I've found it just the opposite...I try to navigate in time and get all googly-eyed I am having huge amounts of trouble predicting how the app is going to respond to my mouseclicks. I click once, the bar moves to that spot and it plays, I click again and it does it again, I click a third time and it stops?

It took me one or two days to adjust to different zooming and scrolling options, and I set my mousewheel and clicks to work differently than the default, which is an option you could look into. But even if you didn't have that option, it's just a matter of reading how the behaviour works (REALLY reading it, not just glancing over it), and then going to the project window and trying it out, and I'm sure everything will fall into place. I think many people would agree with me that the non-standard mousewheel and clicking behaviour increases workflow.

Once you've taken the time to grok it (which isn't all that long if you actually WANT to learn, which is another story; some people come into new learning experiences READY to find something they don't like), it's a much more efficient system than almost any other I can think of. Also, QWERTY shortcuts are your friend.

Greg

Warmonger · Post by **Warmonger** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 5:31 am

Mouse wheel support in Tracktion is definitely not the same as in other DAW's...which is exactly why I like it! It works exactly the way I want it to, by default. I'm sure Sonar or something else could be set up to work the same way. But in Tracktion, once I figured out what a filter was, everything was pretty much intuitive.

I did get slightly lost when trying to figure out how to insert a new clip (for example), but once I saw that the properties panel was completely context sensitive, I figured out how to do everything. I don't know about anyone else, but the big, clearly labelled buttons were an extremely pleasant change from anything I'd used before. All I can say about the in-place editing is:

ModuLR · Post by **ModuLR** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 7:38 am

Relik -> the midi editing is fiddly. It's probably the #1 tracktion gripe, which will s'posedly be addressed in v2. Beyond that, once you are used to it's navigation style.. you can zip all over the place in no time. I can move at a speed I just can't reach in other sequencers... also Tracktion lends itself to keeping one hand on the keyboard as well cos toolbars are for the weak.

anopenscroll · Post by **anopenscroll** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 7:56 am

Somebody create a dang Tracktion tutorial in flash that shows you what the heck rack filters actually mean... I just hate using them.

download of FREE Traction sequencer from Mackie's site