Analog or digital ?

[Echoes in the Attic]

Ah, I see. I stop posting now.

And you should! Don't you have V2.5 of a certain striped animal waiting to be released in to the wild?!!

[pdxindy]

The differences are still huge, and we end up more and more with music that I can't stand to listen to from a sonic perspective.

For me, it is the tendency to over produce and hyper stylize everything that makes music less interesting to me.

It seems like you don't simply enjoy something for what it is, but are always passing it through the filter in your mind of what it is 'supposed' to sound like.

[herodotus]

So, are FXpansion and other notable proponents within the plugin "scene" so insecure that strong, brusque and even brutal criticism frightens them off?

Nah, why bother even? Two people find analogue synths easier to mix. That's hardly "brutal criticism",

Indeed, why should they put up with it here? For fun? What purpose would it serve?

If the criticisms that were leveled were cogent and meaningful it would be one thing. But what exactly is one to do with "it's still 'I can't believe it's not butter' compared to butter"?

Why in hell would any developer respond to a statement like this, unless it was to throw the insult back?

Seriously, I am done with this forum. It has become ridiculous. A tragedy of the commons if ever I have seen one.

[Mans]

It seems like you don't simply enjoy something for what it is, but are always passing it through the filter in your mind of what it is 'supposed' to sound like.

The ultimate audio filter is called perception.

[eduardo_b]

So, are FXpansion and other notable proponents within the plugin "scene" so insecure that strong, brusque and even brutal criticism frightens them off?

Nah, why bother even? Two people find analogue synths easier to mix. That's hardly "brutal criticism",

Indeed, why should they put up with it here? For fun? What purpose would it serve?

If the criticisms that were leveled were cogent and meaningful it would be one thing. But what exactly is one to do with "it's still 'I can't believe it's not butter' compared to butter"?

Why in hell would any developer respond to a statement like this, unless it was to throw the insult back?

Seriously, I am done with this forum. It has become ridiculous. A tragedy of the commons if ever I have seen one.

Perhaps it's the dismal black and white, talking heads phenomenon. The amount of critical thinking and range of thought that passes for discourse these days is ominously minimal. Given how this plays out with something as serious as the completely dysfunctional health care system, it's inevitable when it comes to something as trivial as analogue versus digital.

[jancivil]

This thread is good soap opera

[emdot_ambient]

This thread is good soap opera

I thought you said "soup opera" at first...God, I'm hungry!

[emdot_ambient]

The ultimate audio filter is called perception.

**scratches chin** Actually, that's quite profound.

[eduardo_b]

The ultimate audio filter is called perception.

**scratches chin** Actually, that's quite profound.

Alternatively, there's misperception.

[WMP]

Hmmm, I think this sort of debate is healthy for the minds... as long as people don't lose their tempers over it.

Urs makes the Zebra as we all know. I like Zebra but not because it attempts (not that it was ever stated this was it's purpose), to sound like an analog synth....but because of the sounds it has in it's own right.

Would I use it for bass...nope I'd set up a simple 1 or 2 osc low resonance very simple patch on the Pro-1 (as it is just sick on bass). But I would use Zebra for mid rangey stuff thats sits in the background embedded in the track.

I don't actually own Zebra, but I have used it on others systems and it is one of the better more inspirational soft synths. Reactor I love and have always loved it for wwhat it is.

But emulation vsti's I don't get on with because I have worked with raw real analogs for so long. It's like giving a session guitarist a pod and taking away his stacks and tube gear... he isn't going to thank you...he is too used to THAT sound. I can't get THAT sound with virtual emulations.

I thought I could get THAT compression sound with UAD plugins, after buying some nice hardware comps 1176's, an SSL master Comp and a Ubk Fatso I realised software compression isn't there yet for me either.

If you have NEVER really used... and I mean used for a week longf session getting to know the kit....if you have never used great analog kit then you won't miss it, and you won't know what the very rare few of us are going on about on this forum.

I think synth squad is a leap in the right direction for sure... it's way ahead of a lot of over hyped virtual synths that say they sound like old analogs but just do not... and yes the 'I can't believe it's not Butter' still stands. I've been cooking with Butter for 21 years... virtual Butter doesn't do it for me.

[pdxindy]

The ultimate audio filter is called perception.

**scratches chin** Actually, that's quite profound.

Alternatively, there's misperception.

They are the same thing

[WMP]

Actually I should say 'sounds like analogs' is the correct term. Most emulations sound like... but sounds like is not always good enough.

Being this anal is obssesive and sometimes I hate it. I hate hearing over compression on the tv it grates on me... I must be just very sensitive to subtle things.

Wish I wasn't.

[pdxindy]

I've been cooking with Butter for 21 years... virtual Butter doesn't do it for me.

Perhaps you are so habituated to butter that it has made you inflexible.

But I agree that if you like THAT sound and you already have the means to get it, then by all means use those means. Just the thing is, THAT sound is just one of many sounds and as such not better or worse than any other. It is merely personal preference.

[jancivil]

If you have NEVER really used... and I mean used for a week longf session getting to know the kit....if you have never used great analog kit then you won't miss it, and you won't know what the very rare few of us are going on about on this forum.

I think synth squad is a leap in the right direction for sure... it's way ahead of a lot of over hyped virtual synths that say they sound like old analogs but just do not... and yes the 'I can't believe it's not Butter' still stands. I've been cooking with Butter for 21 years... virtual Butter doesn't do it for me.

Here's the thing, and why this kind of thread tends to be strictly from daytime TV type of entertainment value for me: I have spent time, oodles of time, not a week, years, using analog gear, I grew up with it... and to me most of these value judgments are just postures. A lot of this is like placebo effect and psychological, what's the word.. psychosomatic. You take away a guitarist's whatever, it's tactile sensation, not the sound s/he's gonna miss, not really, unless the emulation or sample is just completely deficient. Usually they are! But there are completely realistic emulations or models, or hey, just sample libraries which obviate all of this, if used right. And where there might be a deficiency, it's nothing compared to the PITA of an analog signal chain, and can be rectified rather easily enough.

Beyond that, 90+ % of what's in an analog chain, in a mixing process is garbage build up. A good model (no, a great model) such as Michael Angel of CD Soundmaster, has preserved the good and eliminated the bad. This is good to do. And when I use an overdriven e. guitar set up, I'd have to tell you it isn't real. I can point to examples, but hey, if I tell y'all it's 'virtual' you'll base your argument on it, which is circular or tautological. (Basically: "opium makes you sleepy because it's a soporific".) If I said it's 'real', you'll support it. Round and round she goes...

So, IME, much of this is fetishing some gear and some 'arguments' which arise from a preference. You may have decided, and it isn't for me to say it isn't valid, that software compression doesn't make it, but that isn't my experience at all, and doesn't say anything to me but 'that's that guy's experience with it so far'.

[vurt]

If you have NEVER really used... and I mean used for a week longf session getting to know the kit....if you have never used great analog kit then you won't miss it, and you won't know what the very rare few of us are going on about on this forum..

THIS is the kind of stateent that pisses me off in these threads.

how do you know what i own, or indeed what i have access to?
as for your 21 years using butter, so, ive been using butter, cream and so on for about the same amount of time, now its time for icing sugar



nostalgia is great, and i cant wait till im older so i can get some