Used sales of reason are SO high, it is time for props to take notice - serious topic, LONG post

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Is it alarming that reason is being sold off continuously in the used marketplace?

TTOZ, i generally agree with what you are saying: 70; 47%

TTOZ, you have no idea what you are talking about: 79; 53%

: Total votes: 149

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Used sales of reason are SO high, it is time for props to take notice - serious topic, LONG post 2012-07-15T19:06:29+00:00 **Please read topic before voting, thanks, otherwise the poll options don't make sense anyway** Hi i am posting here because i know props are reading the host forum.. I am being quite serious about this, so i would appreciate intellectual discussion about it rather than cats, jokes, and trolling. Thanks in advance:) All are welcome to vote, even non reason users of course, but please read the topic if you do vote. Don't take the opportunity to disagree with me just for the sake of it, please, as tempting as it may be :hihi: Around 37 days ago but who's counting I downloaded Reason 6 demo and initially thought bleh.. but for some reason persisted with it as i just wanted to know what all this talk for so many years was about. 48 hours later i was hooked but thought the plugin choice *may* leave me wanting for more.. Even though the idea of stability and a closed system appealed to me, i just wanted a *little bit more* to make it complete. I then watched the entire musikmesse rack extension video, all 40 minutes, with great excitement. I could not test any of these devices in the demo, but the names and plugins mentioned were generally ones i knew and trusted. A week later i took the plunge and bought the program directly at propellerheads.se for $449 and became the proud owner of Reason 6.5. Just 3 days later it arrived in my mailbox from sweden :shock: and i had my ignition key and dvd. I was happy. Then the authorization dramas started, where for days i couldn't authorize the key but occasionally could not even run the program online. I consider, from internet research, propellerheads to be a reasonably sized "player" in the audio market. Not NI or Cakewalk and certainly not Avid, but, somewhere in the middle. So i felt comfy that things would get ironed out with authorizations. And they did.. seriously, it shouldn't have happened in the first place, but they did. Then of course i started hitting limitations like the lack of PDC, and unfortunately it's the very best plugins that have latency (Neptune, Vocoder,Softube Trident, FET, Polar, Ozone 5 limiter, etc) . Never mind i thought, people using pro tools worked around it for decades, and there is no reason why someone might not make a latency compensation rack extension device, just as mellowmuse did with ATA adjuster for Pro Tools . Furthermore propellerheads have said they are actively listening and looking into the pdc thing (but seriously, an RE can't come soon enough.. the simplest way would be an RE that can put a negative sample value in on the track that has the latent plugins..it won't work on busses, but we don't HAVE to use these latent plugins on busses do we? ). In fact, there are actually in entirety only a few things i do not like about the program. 1) Lack of PDC 2) Lack of automatic bussing and fader grouping with automatic solo ability 3) When tempo is changed, clips do not realign correctly length wise, RELATIVELY to the timeline.. like in every other host.. They just get chopped or extended and the clip must be manually resized to be the size of the audio data again. This is very annoying. (unless the tempo is already correct and stretch is enabled, but sometimes even so we do not want to stretch!) 4) It needs a better GUI curve adjustable EQ with analyzer 5) Lack of Rewire master.(i'd like to use melodyne and live as a rewire slave and use reason's efficient engine rather than live's as the master - plus i would like to sync NON REX loop preview to tempo this way) 6) lack of multiple midi clip editing on the same piano roll 7) Only -40db noise floor in gate which means bleed can leak, but this will be taken care of with a 3rd party inexpensive RE gate very soon I think for all the love i have, those things can be overlooked. Cause that really is IT. i *adore* everything else, including all of the onboard processors (especially scream, RV7000, The Echo, Mclass comp and Stereo, Thor, NNXT, ARPG8 and Matrix), the midi editing with floating function window, the regroove mixer, the fantastic shortcuts, easy to use automation, REX manipulation, Blocks, and the BEST damn sidechaining of any host EVER... The general speed of use is also great...It's fast to get stuff done.. super fast..Plus i think the GUI is lovely. The stretch is also very very good except slowing down drums but that is taken care of by slicing instead. For melodic and vocal content the stretch is superb(yes i have tried all three algorithms). The program is also outstandingly efficient on my mac book pro. I finally got around to installing it on the imac, and i can't see myself overloading it any time soon. At this point though i had been blind to the fact that 1) RE's were license that i would pay for and be stuck with forever, even if i moved on from reason one day, and 2) zero crossgrades from my vst versions were possible. My excitement for Re's other than a couple of essentials, is not so great anymore, and I am forcing myself to live with the limitations of the included devices. Mind you that may seem as a good thing to some, to save $$$, but it is not good for the future of propellerheads, especially if others in general do the same thing! It also means developers will not continue to make RE's if they do not have strong sales, and so on and so on. and it is these last 2 points that are the CRUX of this whole topic, because this is WHY reason is appearing so often in the marketplace since the launch of reason 6.5 I have been at KVR 11 years this september.. wow.. and i used to have to SEARCH and usually to no avail to find a reason in the marketplace. In 30 days simply since the launch of reason 6.5, there have been more than 10 copies sold here with a couple in their for sale now. WOW. I tell you what.. you might think 10 copies sold second hand is nothing.. but i have never seen a product been sold off so much, EVER.. since i have been here.. since this marketplace BEGAN.. as i was here for the birth also. Since day one. Actually, i was the first person to ever sell anything here, and then made a topic requesting a marketplace. I remember it clearly. In other words.. no other product is being sold in the KVR marketplace used as much as Reason currently is. You can easily find it for $200 off retail on any given day. KVR members are a very relevant representation of propellerheads customer base on a worldwide scale, I would say. Initially i thought i would return reason within the 30 day refund period, and save myself 200 bucks by buying it second hand here. You might think that's a shitty thing to do, but 200 bucks is a lot, that's a whole month of food for someone like me who eats on a budget. Plus, initially i thought i would make it up to them with rack extension purchases anyway.. You know what, i am glad i didn't do that, and I am glad i supported the company directly with a sale. But for my sale, there have been a potential 10 or more lost sales. People do not just say "I will spend $250 second hand on reason for the hell of it".. they are actually WANTING to buy reason to BEGIN with. You might say, yes, these customers will spend money on rack extensions anyway, so it is still a gain.. but the general opinion on propellerhead's current RE limitations is NOT positive, the forum talk worldwide is negative.. not the products themselves.. but the licensing conditions or as it is better known, the "EULA". Propellerhead's claim that reason 6 has been the highest selling version of all time as far as NEW users is concerned was based on 6.0.. NOT 6.5.. and I would be interested to see the comparison of the numbers so far that have been buying reason 6 brand new AFTER 6.5 and RE's were released. In a nutshell, I find it very, no, *extremely* alarming that reason is being sold off in the marketplace at such a rate. And i firmly believe it is primarily due to the rack extensions licensing agreement, and people deciding "i can't use this as my main all in one host after all", and the more common exposure of the PDC problems now that more devices with latency have been introduced (many people unaware previously that the vocoder and Neptune already had that problem) I therefore ask that propellerheads start taking the complaints from users and potential users seriously.. and listen.. before their amazing product becomes a marketing failure. Thanks for your attention. A concerned customer (and fan) -Theo ObsoleteAcc99 https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=1049

drez drez https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=5542: KVRian
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Post by drez » Tue Jul 31, 2012 9:27 pm

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Jace-BeOS wrote:ON topic: wouldn't it be cool to have the MS-20 in RE format with its sockets in the back, accessible to the rest of the rack?!

The possibility of doing this in an integrated and elegant way is really only doable in Reason. This is why I believe that when something like this DOES come out, people will want to have kept or wish they hadn't gotten rid of their copy of Reason.

-="I beat the Internet...the end guy is hard"=-

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