KVR Audio

Midiworks · Post by **Midiworks** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 8:54 pm

Yes, sorry again for the long wait, now 8 month already...

But we are getting there.

As I said before, it will be released when I am 100% happy,
not any time sooner.

Still working on a new FX and its driving me nuts,
but I really want to get this to work.

So stay tuned !!!

mondo tormento · Post by **mondo tormento** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 1:31 am

One problem (and there are lots of them) with the amp plug-ins out there is that the people that make them care more about including all kinds of effects, eq's, cabinets etc when they really should be focusing on delivering decent amplifier modeling. I'd rather have a plug-in that modeled one amplifier somewhat accurately than one that had ten amplifier models that all sounded like garbage. If someone would accurately model a VOX AC30 or a JCM800 these plug-ins would still be more versatile than lets say Amplitube. Yeah, Simulanalog Guitar Suite was something like this but the sounds went for the extremes: either total shredding a la Metallica (with little or no dynamics) or super clean Nashville style.

Sure, IK's Amplitube was groundbreaking when it first came out. But today I think most guitar players would agree with me when I say that it sounds horrible, at least if you put a guitar signal into it

Guitar players are getting more demanding but I think that's because we know that it's possible to make better (meaning quality not quantity) amplifier plug-ins. I haven't heard IK's Amplitube 2.0 yet, maybe it's a great piece of software or maybe just a piece of sh*t like their current offering. I read somewhere that they'll be releasing it this spring, then we'll pass final judgement. The most promising amplifier plug-in/standalone is NI's Guitar Rig but again sadly they seem to be going for the quantity thing (psychedelay? who uses this?). It's also pretty expensive meaning it would be wiser to go out and buy a real tube amplifier for the money.

Best of luck Midiworks, make us happy

Jesse J · Post by **Jesse J** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 1:40 am

I hope you will include a 50W Marshall JCM 800 pre 1985 amp model, as that is _the_ Marshall sound people look for. It sounds best cranked loud with its power tubes driven properly and with a older Ibanez TS-808 Tube screamer in front (with the older germanium chip) giving the pre-amp tubes some extra bite.

How about the cabinet models? Please do include Marshall JCM series 1960A, 1960AX and 1960AN models, they are all classics and sound really different because they have different speakers.

I hope to have a band mic in front too.

Sascha Franck · Post by **Sascha Franck** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 7:57 am

Twincat wrote:I hope you will include a 50W Marshall JCM 800 pre 1985 amp model, as that is _the_ Marshall sound people look for. It sounds best cranked loud with its power tubes driven properly and with a older Ibanez TS-808 Tube screamer in front (with the older germanium chip) giving the pre-amp tubes some extra bite.

f**k! It had to happen! Someone needed to remind me of my stupidity.
That was the VERY setup I've been using several years ago (mid to end 80s or so). I still have the TS-808 (first edition of them all) but sold the Marshall when I thought I had to play some fusion stuff and needed something more "flexible" - what a wrong decision, several rigs I used after that just sounded like poo (while being freaking expensive). Let alone the music didn't sound much better either...
I sold the Marshall for like 200 DM (around 100 Euro), sheeeeeesh!

mondo tormento · Post by **mondo tormento** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 12:09 pm

You're going for two amplifier models right Midiworks? Were you going for the sound of some specific amplifiers or just creating your own thing?

Midiworks · Post by **Midiworks** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 2:55 pm

No, by now there are 3 amp models.
I am going for flexability in sound not any brand.

Each amp can be inter-connected with any other
by the push of a button or two.

The 2 EQs and the bass boost gives a lot to the tone,
but the main caracter is comming from the different
speaker simulations.

mondo tormento · Post by **mondo tormento** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 9:53 pm

Found something really funny on the IK Multimedia website:

"AmpliTube® and AmpliTube® Live Rock the House Once Again with Stellar Ratings From Computer Music 4 Stars for AmpliTube® Live and 4.5 Stars for AmpliTube® Computer Music Magazine gave AmpliTube® an out of this world rating of 4 and 1/2 stars!!!" http://www.amplitube.com/Main.html?ATNews&CM-0504

But..according to the Computer Music website a score between 3-4 means it's "A flawed product thats not suited to making music." http://www.computermusic.co.uk/reviews/reviewsmain.asp

I love those crazy IK people, trying to squeeze every last penny out of their piece of s*it software.

ezeeboogie · Post by **ezeeboogie** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 9:30 am

mondo tormento wrote:Found something really funny on the IK Multimedia website:

"AmpliTube® and AmpliTube® Live Rock the House Once Again with Stellar Ratings From Computer Music 4 Stars for AmpliTube® Live and 4.5 Stars for AmpliTube® Computer Music Magazine gave AmpliTube® an out of this world rating of 4 and 1/2 stars!!!" http://www.amplitube.com/Main.html?ATNews&CM-0504

But..according to the Computer Music website a score between 3-4 means it's "A flawed product thats not suited to making music." http://www.computermusic.co.uk/reviews/reviewsmain.asp

I love those crazy IK people, trying to squeeze every last penny out of their piece of s*it software.

Er, I think you will find that Computer Music have switched from a system of scoring out of five, to their current system of scoring out of ten... IK got the scores when 4.5 out of 5 was a shit hot score, equivalent to 9 out of 10 in their new system.

mondo tormento · Post by **mondo tormento** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 12:29 pm

My mistake, the IK article is dated April 2005 so they must be referring to a really old Computer Music review then. But still hilarious if someone interested in their product followed the link to the Computer Music website and saw the ratings system - they'd probably question IK's sanity

KarmicApexIntellect · Tue Apr 05, 2005 10:30 pm

baggio wrote:Midiworks I'll do some semi-acoustic stuff for you tomorrow.

In terms of the Variax being worth it - I would give it a big yes. Of course people would rather own the real things but its not always practical in terms of expense. Anyway, I own a classic strat and telecaster, which I never use for recording anymore because the variax is so versatile - so many guitar tones to chose from and the issue of monitor interference etc from your PC is no longer an issue. I paid £400 for mine and its worth every penny - although I am not going to be selling my strat or tele - too much sentimental value.

Ahh cool, another Line 6 fan!

I don't own a Variax (although I'd like to check one out); my main Line6 piece of gear that I use, is a 300W Vetta HD 1/2-stack as my primary amp. Had it for over 3 years now, and still love the thing!

wsaidah · Post by **wsaidah** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 11:35 pm

TS-808 [/quote]i would like to see this plug done right

Sascha Franck · Post by **Sascha Franck** » Wed Apr 06, 2005 5:58 am

Btw, to me it seems there's another major problem with native guitar amp emulations, which actually isn't related to the actual software: The input stage that is!
By now, I have been trying out various combinations of soundcards and *whatever* sort of devices to bring my guitar signal up to line level (which defenitely is required).
I have a little mobile rack with some Allen & Heath mixer, running into a Hammerfall DSP. Usually the sound quality of that setup is almost to be called "pristine" - but it actually was the worst when it came to trying out guitar am simulations.
I also tried the same setup with a D.I. box in front. Better, still not great at all. Lots of noise (wich I found to be really weird).
I also used my POD and VAmp in bypass mode, so the sound was only slightly buffered and got pretty much reasonable results. Another pretty good solution was using the Hi-Z input of an M-Audio Firewire interface (the 410).
Even the more or less cheesy Hi-Z input of my Edirol PCR A30 was quite OK.
And finally I just recently tried guitar rig in the shop (after being quite dissapointed with the demo) with NI's own controller, which is doing the impedance matching job as well - a difference like night and day, way better than the results I could get at home.

My personal bottomline: In order to get reasonable results out of any such simulations, you need a really good "impedance matcher" along with some very neutral gain stage.

I guess many people complaining about the inferior sound of guitar amp software just don't call anything like that their own... at least my mind was pretty much made up after I tried the various combinations.

Amberience · Post by **Amberience** » Wed Apr 06, 2005 6:04 am

I use Native Instruments Guitar Rig, but prior to that I also have a Marshall BluesbreakerII foot pedal, and this gives it that extra crunch that I need. I recently just bought a new Ibanez too, which sounds a SHITLOAD better than my old strat replica.

mondo tormento · Post by **mondo tormento** » Wed Apr 06, 2005 11:00 am

Sasha, you're right. A good preamp is crucial when using NI's Guitar Rig. If you plug the guitar right into a soundcard the sound is too weak and you'll get more noise than guitar signal. I haven't tried the Guitar Rig footcontroller/preamp. I've been using the demo with a Behringer Tube Ultragain Mic200 and it sounds pretty good, very little noise even on high gain settings.

From what I understand Midiworks amp plug-in will not require a preamp to boost the signal. I haven't read anything about the noise levels on his upcoming plug-in but I'm thinking there will be a lot of noise if you want to go for high gain sounds.

luka2807 · Post by **luka2807** » Wed Apr 06, 2005 11:56 am

Actually,

I was (and still am) carefully looking whats happening on Midiworks side and I think his sound demos are really great, but I have to admit that I am a bit worried that he is announcing that no sort of preamp/impedance_mathcher/DI will be necesarry for his plugin to work corectly. Sorry, but it is simply not possible to plug Hi-Z instrument into the line level souncard input without significant loss of quality in terms of gain, noise and even frequency spectrum. So, I would like Midiworks not to waste time and energy in attempt to create perpetum mobile by subsitution of regular DI preamp with some sort of software "preamp". It will result in nothing but the disappointment cos every guitar will have completly different sound due to the big differences in their output impedance (typical pickups' impedance range from 5kOhm to 20kOhm).

Nevertheless, I keep my fingers crossed for new amp modelling plugin from Midiworks.

Guitar players, The soundclick MP3 demo page got updated !