Spire Synthesizer

[chk071]

Where's Sylenth1 V2?

Sylenth1 is actually on V3 already

Yes, but it's still the same synth with very few additions.

Guess Reveal Sound could call Spire V5 by now, when you judge it like Sylenth1.

[chk071]

If they come up with a WT oscillator emulating Virus' Formant Complex I wouldn't mind tho But they were making preset browser for like 2 years so it indeed seems that they have slowed down quite a bit.

I had an email exchange with them once where one of the devs (I don't know how many there are really... they're quite secretive) almost regretted that the development takes so much time... I think they're even working on v2 for a while now. We'll see. Software development is a tough business, especially with the expectations many have, that you can just snip with your fingers, and stuff is done.

[recursive one]

It acually seems that developing the Rack Extension was quite an obstacle for them (and eventually this turned out to be not necessary).

Was it ever announced what was planned for v.2?

[middle_color]

There are few things I'd really like to see, such as audio-rate modulation

I don't own Spire but i learn tutorials and review manuals before decision of purchase. This is from the manual:

Use the knobs labelled OSC1, OSC2, OSC3, OSC4 to adjust the volume of each oscillator.When the knob is set all the way to the left the oscillator is completely shut off and the LED light immediately to the left is unlit. Knob position within a 1-30 (yellow LED)Knob values between 1 - 30 (as indicated by a yellow LED light) add the oscillator into the rendering but pass no sound. This is useful when you are only want to use an oscillator as a modulator.

Isn't it what you wanted?

[chk071]

Was it ever announced what was planned for v.2?

I didn't read anything.

[recursive one]

There are few things I'd really like to see, such as audio-rate modulation

I don't own Spire but i learn tutorials and review manuals before decision of purchase. This is from the manual:

Use the knobs labelled OSC1, OSC2, OSC3, OSC4 to adjust the volume of each oscillator.When the knob is set all the way to the left the oscillator is completely shut off and the LED light immediately to the left is unlit. Knob position within a 1-30 (yellow LED)Knob values between 1 - 30 (as indicated by a yellow LED light) add the oscillator into the rendering but pass no sound. This is useful when you are only want to use an oscillator as a modulator.

Isn't it what you wanted?

Not quite.

Yes, you can use the oscillators as modulation sources, but I'm not quite sure if the Spire's modulaiton matrix actually works as audio rate.

E.g., in Dune3 you can select different modulation rate and if you select anything else than audio rate you will get audible artifacts when using oscillators tuned to audible range as modulation sources. Likewise, in Spire using the oscillators as modulation sources also makes somehwat dirty sound which makes me think that the moulated parameter is updated slower than audio rate.

This can actually add some nice grittiness to the sound but you have to really hunt for the sweet spots. I'd prefer an option for more accurate modulation for things like filter FM, even if this would eat the CPU.

[chk071]

Yeah, I don't think you can modulate in audio rate in Spire. It's also something I'd like to have implemented at some point.

The modulation rate is reasonably fast though. Sounds good, but, it's not audio rate.

[e-crooner]

For most modulations audio rate is not necessary, anyway. There is a reason why it can be switched off in Dune 3, it's probably a waste of CPU power in most cases.

[BONES]

IDK, I think Hive2 was a good example of how to add things without ruining the worklfow. If you don't need WTs or Shape Sequencers of Function gens you can just ignore them.

Actually I became interested in Hive only when it got wavetables.

I don't remember much of Dune1 (had the CM one installed years back but don't rememebr using it much) but I think Dune3 also has quite manageable worklow overall.

Well, you're talking about two synths that I have completely stopped using and, at least in the case of DUNE, it has nothing at all to do with the sound. With Hive, it could be the UI overhaul as much as anything but pretty much as soon as I got v2.0, I stopped using it. The way I see it is that if I can get the sounds I want from synths like Union or JP6K, why would I bother with anything more complicated? Even Thorn and ArcSyn, two synths I really like, are more like preset players for me, not anything I can be bothered programming from scratch. There's just too much shit to wade through for little or no benefit most of the time so I don't use them unless I need to.

[recursive one]

For most modulations audio rate is not necessary, anyway. There is a reason why it can be switched off in Dune 3, it's probably a waste of CPU power in most cases.

It's neccessary when the modulator frequency is in the auditble range - that will typically be an oscillator (in cases like oscillators cross-modulation or filter FM) or maybe a very fast LFO.

If you use such modulators but the modulated parameter is not updated at audio rate you will be getting various noisy artifacts which in most cases you don't want.

For "normal" slow LFOs and such you don't need that, it won't make any audible difference.

[recursive one]

IDK, I think Hive2 was a good example of how to add things without ruining the worklfow. If you don't need WTs or Shape Sequencers of Function gens you can just ignore them.

Actually I became interested in Hive only when it got wavetables.

I don't remember much of Dune1 (had the CM one installed years back but don't rememebr using it much) but I think Dune3 also has quite manageable worklow overall.

Well, you're talking about two synths that I have completely stopped using and, at least in the case of DUNE, it has nothing at all to do with the sound. With Hive, it could be the UI overhaul as much as anything but pretty much as soon as I got v2.0, I stopped using it. The way I see it is that if I can get the sounds I want from synths like Union or JP6K, why would I bother with anything more complicated? Even Thorn and ArcSyn, two synths I really like, are more like preset players for me, not anything I can be bothered programming from scratch. There's just too much shit to wade through for little or no benefit most of the time so I don't use them unless I need to.

When I learned how to program synths, first it was Sylenth, then Spire and Dune2 as an extension of Sylenth, then Virus TI as an extension of Dune2. So with Dune3 and Hive2 I didn't actually have much new things to learn, most of it was already very familiar. The function generators made me scratch my head for a while but there are good youtube tutorials about how they work. I've yet to learn Uhm scripting but Hive can be perfectly operated without it so I'm not sure I'll actually bother, the wavetables that go with Hive cover most of my needs.

I don't like overcomplicated synths but synths like Hive 2, Spire or Dune 3 provide optimal balance between useability and flexibility IMO. So does Thorn btw, but I'm not really a fan of its sound (I have the mono version from the magaizne and made some patches for it but it never made it into any of my tracks)

[BONES]

Good Dog! The first synth I learned to use was a Roland SH 1000.

For me it has absolutely nothing to do with learning, I already know how to use a synth. It is about getting work done in the limited free time I have. To that end, synths are just tools, they need to facilitate what I'm doing, not get in the way of it. If I don't need two filters, then I don't want to have to deal with them. Give me one filter that does the f**king job! ArcSyn, in particular, sometimes drives me mad with it's filter set-up but Thorn and Equator can be equally annoying on that front when it suits them. I'd much rather use something like Super 8, TRK-01 or JP6K that have all the things I need and not much that I don't. That's also why I like Ujam's instruments - they are all really straightforward wit not much in the way of extra krap I don't need.

[recursive one]

Well, if I need a basic subtractive sound, I'll use Sylenth. But when I need wavetables, FM or a vowel filter I'll use something that has wavetables, FM or a vowel filter. Simple as that.

I guess my synth needs are a bit different to most though, psytrance pretty much relies on various synth gimmicks. But I'm a pretty lazy sound-designer, so I also prefer things that do the job fast.

[BONES]

Why would you "need wavetables"? Surely that's just a choice, like so many others. I cannot think of a single occasion when I have thought "I need wavetables for this". I have no idea what a wavetable can do that I can't do with a bit of cross-mod (or a lot). I can't say I've ever noticed any "gimmicky" sounds in any of the Psytrance I've heard, either.

[middle_color]

Thank for heads up! I was intrigued and downloaded demo version and i hear it.

I enjoyed right click drag and drop functionality. Something to look at for those synths that did not yet implement it.