Haha, yeah, was pretty blown away when I chanced upon his site. I had found drips and drabs and then..woah there it ALL is, explained in a compendious fashion from a guy who has reached a seemingly GURU status on the topic.
Hope it helps, I know its all going to help me plenty
The Upsampling Your Mix Thread
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- KVRAF
- 3369 posts since 16 Jan, 2005 from Ottawa, Ontario
I stopped reading this thread a while back (guess why 
) but recently started screwing with higher sampling rates (anticipating my better pc 
), so I decided to wade through it and see if anything came out of it.
Firstly thanks to all (especially the usual suspects, audio nerdzz) for the great input that ended up in here. I wound up reading the whole thread. It's almost as good as that EQ thread there was a while back...
Plugins plugins plugins... ye DEMONS!
I had something I was working on and decided to experiment a little just to see... and the totals of differences were complete, to say the least. I only did 8 or ten seconds' worth and rendered at 44/88/96/192 to see what it would sound like...
My plugins are going to get a THOROUGH going through - I'm glad I've wound them down so dramatically last year. I'd used an FM bass layer from the DX-10 and the sound was altogether different at 88/96 and then even moreso at 192. It sounded nothing like the same patch at all, and the___ space___ just___ changed----wholly at 192; f**king completely!!!!! ALL reverb went to hell. I had alot of plugins and there's just so much going on with this that I don't even know where to begin properly analysing it all and deciding what happened where
, but the plugins need be of a minimal standard for sure IMO.
It's not even anything to do with some clarity I was after - or maybe some instrument or particular frequency... - or any one little thing. IT'S THE WHOLE f**king THING!! It didn't even sound like the same bloody project.
It left me a little despondent at first, but when I listened to all the crappy differences, I heard ALOT of things I liked. The most AWESOME and noticable thing was with some hatting I'd done (at far left, almost far right, and one little hit @10 o'clock were in the mid-highend) all just made like an absolutely fantastic "film" or veil of sparkle that literally surrounded and swarmed around the bass. It was by far the most kickasssss(HUWAH!) spacial stationary drumming effect ever to come out of my pc; purely from the combination of placement, frequency differences to all proximal material, and timing. It was like a super fast wave of seperate high end moving from left to right - like when a large flock of small birds change direction midflight, only perfectly controlled and alot like I've heard on Shoutcast house/prog channels.
The whole project still sounded like shit but the space and seperation in the high end that created itself at bizzaro192 is nothing like I've managed yet.
It's been an unforgiving but very welcomed eye-opener for sure. Just try it yourselves if you haven't. Some (much alot) freeware, fun as they can be, really can't cut it, I'm sorry to say. No disrespect to the devs in any way.
) but recently started screwing with higher sampling rates (anticipating my better pc ), so I decided to wade through it and see if anything came out of it.Firstly thanks to all (especially the usual suspects, audio nerdzz) for the great input that ended up in here. I wound up reading the whole thread. It's almost as good as that EQ thread there was a while back...
Plugins plugins plugins... ye DEMONS!
I had something I was working on and decided to experiment a little just to see... and the totals of differences were complete, to say the least. I only did 8 or ten seconds' worth and rendered at 44/88/96/192 to see what it would sound like...
My plugins are going to get a THOROUGH going through - I'm glad I've wound them down so dramatically last year. I'd used an FM bass layer from the DX-10 and the sound was altogether different at 88/96 and then even moreso at 192. It sounded nothing like the same patch at all, and the___ space___ just___ changed----wholly at 192; f**king completely!!!!! ALL reverb went to hell. I had alot of plugins and there's just so much going on with this that I don't even know where to begin properly analysing it all and deciding what happened where
, but the plugins need be of a minimal standard for sure IMO.It's not even anything to do with some clarity I was after - or maybe some instrument or particular frequency... - or any one little thing. IT'S THE WHOLE f**king THING!! It didn't even sound like the same bloody project.
It left me a little despondent at first, but when I listened to all the crappy differences, I heard ALOT of things I liked. The most AWESOME and noticable thing was with some hatting I'd done (at far left, almost far right, and one little hit @10 o'clock were in the mid-highend) all just made like an absolutely fantastic "film" or veil of sparkle that literally surrounded and swarmed around the bass. It was by far the most kickasssss(HUWAH!) spacial stationary drumming effect ever to come out of my pc; purely from the combination of placement, frequency differences to all proximal material, and timing. It was like a super fast wave of seperate high end moving from left to right - like when a large flock of small birds change direction midflight, only perfectly controlled and alot like I've heard on Shoutcast house/prog channels.
The whole project still sounded like shit
but the space and seperation in the high end that created itself at bizzaro192 is nothing like I've managed yet. It's been an unforgiving but very welcomed eye-opener for sure. Just try it yourselves if you haven't. Some (much alot) freeware, fun as they can be, really can't cut it, I'm sorry to say. No disrespect to the devs in any way.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 19156 posts since 13 Feb, 2003 from Vancouver, Canada
I've had to do some last-minute changes to a mix, and the CPU in Cubase is just pinned, I have to bounce down some stuff, so I figure now is as good a time as any to try out the up/oversampling thing. I'll see how it goes...
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- KVRAF
- 5629 posts since 22 Sep, 2005
Debutante so agreed!! I dont even know where the hell to start with all of this and or what will be effected from wont.. I guess for me it's a closer step to getting things to sound that much more natural and warm.. I know a few guys that have releases with a really rich sound in their mixes and was always given the run arounds when asking them how they got their shit to sound the way they do. AFAICT upsampling brings my tracks that much closer to sounding as good as theirs!
bduffy is this going to push back the site launch then?
L
bduffy is this going to push back the site launch then?
L
Last edited by Lagrange on Sat Apr 07, 2007 6:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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- KVRAF
- 2049 posts since 18 Sep, 2003 from Seattle USA
Another award winning bduffy thread for sure! 
Good idea Debutante, I'm going to give my plugins a THOROUGH talking to also! Some of them may just end up taking out the trash and running errands.
Good idea Debutante, I'm going to give my plugins a THOROUGH talking to also! Some of them may just end up taking out the trash and running errands.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 19156 posts since 13 Feb, 2003 from Vancouver, Canada
Thanks, Kylen! You're too kind, but I'm not one to discourage reputations... 
Whoa! I didn't see Debutante's HUGE post! I think we posted at the same time; I must read this, didn't mean to interrupt the flow...sounds he's like had a little revelation...
Whoa! I didn't see Debutante's HUGE post! I think we posted at the same time; I must read this, didn't mean to interrupt the flow...sounds he's like had a little revelation...
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 19156 posts since 13 Feb, 2003 from Vancouver, Canada
Wow. I bounced out some stems, loaded 3 channels with their final bus FX, and phoot! I'm already edging towards 50% CPU. 
Just out of insanity, I'm converting and bringing in the vocals, see if I can get away with it.
Dumb question: how do you know if a plug-in doesn't support higher sample rates or not?
Just out of insanity, I'm converting and bringing in the vocals, see if I can get away with it.Dumb question: how do you know if a plug-in doesn't support higher sample rates or not?
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 19156 posts since 13 Feb, 2003 from Vancouver, Canada
IIRC, Audiomove is exceptional, especially for free, and the K-Man rated it 2nd behind r8Brain (the Pro version, specifically).
Dude, I'm just doing my first stem mix at 96khz. I think I just peed myself a little bit...
Dude, I'm just doing my first stem mix at 96khz. I think I just peed myself a little bit...
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- KVRian
- 666 posts since 29 Dec, 2006 from Auckland, New Zealand
Lolbduffy wrote: Dude, I'm just doing my first stem mix at 96khz. I think I just peed myself a little bit...
then its best that I don't know what a stem mix is 
All I know is that I just converted a 16/44khz 1.6mb break into a 32float/96khz 7.6mb monster.
Back to hunting the thread again, no matter how much I read, I still am not 100% how or when to apply as there are many stages in my process.
The good news is that I know such things have been covered a few times in this thread by now:)
bro, I hope you are wetting yourself in a good way
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- KVRAF
- 6478 posts since 16 Dec, 2002
Audiomove is marginally better than the free r8brain version. (see earlier pages of this thread for more info)Dayl wrote:Hey, Is Audiomove on par with R8 Brain? I mean we are talking free compared to $129
?????
The pro version is still just about the best resampler available.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 19156 posts since 13 Feb, 2003 from Vancouver, Canada
Is there any other kind?Dayl wrote:Lolbduffy wrote: Dude, I'm just doing my first stem mix at 96khz. I think I just peed myself a little bit...
All I know is that I just converted a 16/44khz 1.6mb break into a 32float/96khz 7.6mb monster.
Back to hunting the thread again, no matter how much I read, I still am not 100% how or when to apply as there are many stages in my process.
The good news is that I know such things have been covered a few times in this thread by now:)
bro, I hope you are wetting yourself in a good way
Well, it's quite simple, actually: I took my drums, bass, guitars, vocals and mixed them to their own stereo tracks (with the effects off), then I converted them to 96khz with Audiomove, then I imported them into a 96khz Cubase project and re-loaded the FX I had on before. So now the FX are doing their oversampling goodness. I need to hear them side-by-side, but I'm pretty darn sure I'm hearing a clearer mix with this...
Now I just have to try to get a mix out of the 44k project, with the CPU all tits-up.
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- KVRian
- 666 posts since 29 Dec, 2006 from Auckland, New Zealand
Ah, just like that, I was thinking something along those lines. Thought I'd just confirm before I frazzle my CPU 
Hey, I need to dig out my sx power book, but isn't there a save fx state so that you can load the settings from a previous session? in a situation just as you are describing.
I cant find it...sure I came across this option a while ago.
Hey, I need to dig out my sx power book, but isn't there a save fx state so that you can load the settings from a previous session? in a situation just as you are describing.
I cant find it...sure I came across this option a while ago.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 19156 posts since 13 Feb, 2003 from Vancouver, Canada
Very astute, my main man! That's exactly what I did; just saved out my group channel effects and my SendFX channels (those I saved as one preset: you can save multiple channels at once) and loaded them (carefully!) back into the 96khz project.Dayl wrote:Ah, just like that, I was thinking something along those lines. Thought I'd just confirm before I frazzle my CPU
Hey, I need to dig out my sx power book, but isn't there a save fx state so that you can load the settings from a previous session? in a situation just as you are describing.
I cant find it...sure I came across this option a while ago.
It's a little confusing, and you're bound to screw it up a few times, but it's really cool breaking the project down like this; it's good to hear it without all the effects, and when I loaded them back in, I pulled back on the wetness of the mix, but also, I think, because of the increased fidelity; I just didn't seem to need as much of anything now. But, I had to bounce down my rhythm tracks as soon as I set up my SendFX, just to free up some CPU! But you can really beat the shit out of your audio at this samplerate.
Now when I compare my 96k mix to the 44k one, funny: the 96k one sounds a little less bright...but these projects are a little different, and the less brightness could be because the EQ's are maign smoother curves, not sure...but I do think it sounds better.