Zero Delay Feedback Filter (How to test if your synth has a )- Xils-Lab White Paper -

[Z1202]

If you look closely at Antti's transistor ladder model, depite 9 tanh shapers the output is not clamped within a range. In fact it's hard to believe that it doesn't explode.

It's quite remarkable, just a couple of days ago I concerned myself with exactly that question, and got an upper estimation on the "explosion speed" of this model as a logarithm of time. The estimation is way overconservative, so the real maximum growth speed could be even lower (provided I didn't do any mistakes )

Regards,
{Z}

[hakey]

Xils did not target Diva . Never.

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/electron ... -beta.html

[Ingonator]

Xils did not target Diva . Never.

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/electron ... -beta.html

I first found a comment of Lotuzia about a comparison of a Minimoog and Diva there but not about Xils synths.
The someone mentioned Synthix and Lotuzia responded to that reply, again nothing bad about that.
The first thing i did myself when the public beta of Diva started is to compare it to my Moog Slim Phatty and there is nothing wrong about that.

Here is the part which you maybe talk about:

"Well, as you mentioned Synthix .......

Synthix is totally different : It has true stereo directly from the OSC stage ( pan + true stereo modes), is polytimbral so you can layer/split etc or make huge leads ( mandatory for Synthex modes ), has loads of totally never seen modules ( ChaoX LFO, Rythm LFOs, DsyncADSR, so it already has one of his feet in the XXI th century and in the Beyond Analog Field), cumulative LFOs, has PWM on many waveforms, has a very sophisticated sequencer ( Praised by many reviewers as beeing incredibly creative ), many play modes including the guitar mode (-wich can be used by other controllers than guitars btw) an enhanced polyphonic arpegiattor ( all these ones can interact for modulations and give an infinity of playing techniques ), has modelled enveloppes/portamento and components, handles the warping of the filter problem ( sometimes referenced as zero delay filter problem ) with efficient and innovative solutions, a specific and complex modelled chorus, huge modulations possibilities, polyphonic aftertouch, a nice delay wich can be not clocked synced for musical Fx, a nice Spray parameter to add user customisable non linearities to all the already implemented modelled ones ( Edit seems that there's something similar to Spay in Diva ie Slope parameter ), and it does all that with a CPU charge wich, though not tiny, makes it usable on every average computer. I could add to the list of differences but well .......

Ok so after all this is only a pile of characteristics and a specification sheet, and a synth is much more than that but ......

the main thing might only be : It sounds totally different. And will continue to sound completely different.

This is the main thing I'd suggest to people who want to compare synths : just demo them and try them, include them into existing tracks to see what fits and is needed, and find wich one fits your taste the best, Diva, Synthix, or any other ( they are all different ). ( btw There's a dongle free demo of the Synthix. )

Al synths sound different, from ImpOSCar to the Korgs, Vaz, Omnisphere, Synthix, all different true hw analog synths, wich are all different one to another, etc etc. Music rely on diversity.

Hope I didnt derailed the thread. So back to Diva now ...."


Does not really sound like bashing Diva for me. More like explaining the differences of Synthix and Diva.


Ingo

[Lotuzia]

Yeah, I know you don't like dongles, but I think certain products warrant the inconvenience, and Synthix is one of them. You really owe it to yourself to try it.

Yeah, not gonna happen But I'll be re-installing the CM PolyKB version again soon (I resolved some permissions issue that may have been crashing it) and possibly get XILS 3 LE if there is an upgrade path to the full version, and if it ever goes dongle-free then I may upgrade.

Hi Braj,

very probably you were confronted to the fact that you need to install it in a folder where you have rights, otherwise you have to run it with admin rights.

Intalling it in the x86 folder is Ok for example. All this is more precisely documented in the PolyKB manual, so I think its the same for the free player version of CM manual. We had several hundreds of people who installed it without problem and registered on our site, but for those ho had problems its was always this folder problem which was the cause.

Thanks

[braj]

That's ok, I chose not to install it now.

[Lotuzia]

Hey I thought this wasn't a Xils thread I though it was all about 0DF and not some advertising blurb.

(I mean no offence to Xils whose only fault in my life is using those damn dongles. I would like to give you my business even if your reps are not my best friends)

Oh God, please don't reference that thread

But in a completely unsolicited and off-topic way, I'd like to throw some support out there for Xils Lab. I made a Diva vs Synthix thread a bit ago (obviously features/sound are very different; it's just I had narrowed a purchase decision down to those two), and I was very impressed with Synthix. I especially liked the way voice-management works, it's really interesting. And while layers are bit clunky currently, just a few minutes with the manual and a practice patch or two helps you appreciate its sound-design potential (especially when combined with the voice-management and the sequencer). I ultimately decided on Diva at the time (no regrets, love u-he synths), but Xils synths (esp. Synthix) are on my short list the next time I'm in the market for an instrument.

Thanks KBSoundsmith, I remember a bit this thread yes.

Yes the Synthix 8 layers management, wich we primarily thought of as a best of both world ( easy and advanced editing mode) brought some confusion for certain users, so we'll change that in version 1.25. We hope that this version will make it much more easy to program, but we're taking our time to do it, because the Synthix is an 8 layers polytimbral synthesizer with myriads of features in a single panel design.

The feedback of many users really helped us, though.

[Lotuzia]

Does not really sound like bashing Diva for me. More like explaining the differences of Synthix and Diva.

Ingo

Thanks Ingo.

Bit OT : Yes pointing out the differences is something else than bashing etc. Someone mentioned the Synthix, so I gave a bit of info on it.

More than that, it also shows that the idea about differences bewtween different musical instruments, diversity in tools, music, needs for particular people (hey, we're all particular ) is not new for me : It's the foundation of my personal philosophy, and I know I share this with a lot of people. I thank all the very different musicians that I've met in my life for that : I learned a lot from them, and I hope they eventually got something from me as well.

Its the same in forums like KVR : I really met here some nice people that I would NEVER could have met otherwise.

And to Hakey : Thanks for posting the link.

[trimph1]

I think that the word-difference- must be like a red flag to some people who have to turn it into a hierarchical term.

To me, difference is only that. Difference.

[Urs]

Xils did not target Diva . Never.

That might be true.

But then, you have become the public face of XILS, not least since you organized that long Synthix announcement thread last year. And this is why people associate whatever you say with XILS, and it doesn't matter whether it's posted on your own merrits, or on your sound shop or on XILS. Thus, whatever you say is commonly perceived as a XILS opinion.

[_leras]

Hey I thought this wasn't a Xils thread I though it was all about 0DF and not some advertising blurb.

(I mean no offence to Xils whose only fault in my life is using those damn dongles. I would like to give you my business even if your reps are not my best friends)

I did not advertise anything.

Its a 0df thread, I was just answering to an old friend, Mr Leras, who is friendly enough to visit us quite frequently, showing us his big love, even if he's a bit too shy to admit it.

Dongles, dongles ........ yes the future is bright !

Look I'm not going to be shy in saying that I was disappointed by Synthix. Why should I be? I paid good money for it.

I'm also not going to be shy in pointing out your i.e. constant bumping of a thread with 10/10 in the title or your attempts to derail 'multiple' threads about other synths. I'm not anti xils but I am certainly put off xils by your own attitudes.

And I am certainly not going to be dissuaded from my opinion on things I have paid for - even if you try to paint me as an anti xils commenter. I post good and bad things about most synths I am familiar with. Perhaps take the feedback and strive for a better product...?

You know if you post about filters in the instrument forum, you'll have to put up with comments from everyone.

fwiw, I don't really have an issue with dongles in most cases. (*until my synchrosft key dies anyway!!)

[Ingonator]

I'm also not going to be shy in pointing out your i.e. constant bumping of a thread with 10/10 in the title or your attempts to derail 'multiple' threads about other synths. I'm not anti xils but I am certainly put off xils by your own attitudes.

AFAIK That kind of "derailment" you talk about usually starts with a more or less harmless and friendly comment by Lotuzia and suddenly lead into personal attacks or attacks on Xils products. Usually there are always at least two people necessary to "derail" a thread.


Ingo

[izonin]

I'm also not going to be shy in pointing out your i.e. constant bumping of a thread with 10/10 in the title or your attempts to derail 'multiple' threads about other synths. I'm not anti xils but I am certainly put off xils by your own attitudes.

AFAIK That kind of "derailment" you talk about usually starts with a more or less harmless and friendly comment by Lotuzia and suddenly lead into personal attacks or attacks on Xils products. Usually there are always at least two people necessary to "derail" a thread.


Ingo

It's a marketing strategy that is getting slightly annoying.

[mcnoone]

I'm also not going to be shy in pointing out your i.e. constant bumping of a thread with 10/10 in the title or your attempts to derail 'multiple' threads about other synths. I'm not anti xils but I am certainly put off xils by your own attitudes.

AFAIK That kind of "derailment" you talk about usually starts with a more or less harmless and friendly comment by Lotuzia and suddenly lead into personal attacks or attacks on Xils products. Usually there are always at least two people necessary to "derail" a thread.
Ingo

I've only seen good things said about Xils products, and I've had some good experiences myself with the PolyKB player, and if dongleless someday, I'd get one of their products for sure.
There are criticisms of their products, but that's normal for any plugin product.
So your simply reading into, or taking too seriously those criticisms.

As far as what Lotuzia does in other threads, sounds a lot like ads or something, and really doesn't come off as an honest opinion.
More like personal and professional bias, than an honest opinion.
I guess that's fine though, to each their own.
There probably is a lot of personal bias to many opinions here anyway.
I think if Lotuzia didn't post opinions like ads, with subtle jabs taken at certain other competing companies, then no one would have anything against him.
No one wants to read cheesy ads when discussing things on a forum, and that's exactly what he's doing.
I'm sure he's a nice guy and works hard, and enjoys what he does, but if he thinks it's helping to promote a company with ad like commentary here, he's mistaken.
One reason why the U-he crew is popular here, is they can discuss things without sounding like an ad, and can post on a variety of topics, and it not be all about them. Not dropping unrelated "ad bombs" on every thread about synths.
Xils Labs doesn't need an ads spokesman, and can just rely on the quality of their products for good word of mouth comments.

[george]

Corona is going to include a Zero Delay Feedback Filter on the next release. Very soon

http://www.discodsp.com/mp3/snippet/newfilter.mp3

[stimresp]

It's a marketing strategy that is getting slightly annoying.

It feels this way to me too. I've been able to bypass the overtness by using the mute feature. Works a charm!