KVR Dev Challenge 2016!

[.jon]

You're right, back on topic! Some instrument test reports.

YoozBL303 - "best free 303 emulation" is one of the oldest memes on KVR, but here we have yet another candidate for the title! Bit of an ugly duckling, it actually sounds great. With such small amount of controls, it can be used form Live's device rack without opening the GUI, which is ideal. The resonance knob range is quite aggressive, which is the only minus I'd give this. 303 bassline is a niche thing, you either use one or don't, but here's one that does the job and does it well. I'm keeping it.

Noisetar - I love noise in all it's forms. My most ambitious, never-ending project is entirely based on noise processing. A new tool built from ground up for noise by the people who made Sinnah therefore set my expectations very high. It takes the opposite approach to my own Reaktor ensembles, which feature continuous noise modulated internally and happily use up all my screen and CPU. I think a second envelope would have been like a really good addition, and even if I didn't really find the filters, stereo enhancer or reverb usable, it's still a useful, low-footprint noise oscillator that responds well to automation.

Lord of the Springs one of the stars of the show, an original PM instrument with steampunky character. Sounds superb. The GUI omits all modern comforts, but I feel part of the obscurity is intentional. In any case there's not that much to do to the sound, I just close it and play. This is the stuff that dev contest is made for, unique, creative plugins that inspire music. I also think imaginary instruments like LOTS are the ideal application of physical modelling, it gives access to instruments that you just can't have in any other way.

Serpo some really fun vocal sounds inside, and other usable content that could well give birth to a song or two. As a plugin, it's very minimal so a lot is left to be desired, lack of release being the biggest issue I had. In the end a closed sound module like this should probably just have more content to stay on my hard drive.

Siren (copypasta from their thread elsewhere) It's fun, sort of like a Korg Monotron Delay, but in high fidelity VST form. I think there must be reason why small, super simple gadgets like Kastls, Meeblips, Monotrons etc are popping up everywhere, and maybe that's just sound without the need to think or tinker. Lovely GUI, and the delay+verb on this sound very good.

[.jon]

I personally prefer to choose platforms and technologies based on the concrete benefits. And 32-bit plugins don't have any, why would I use them?

The main benefit of using 32bit plugins is you don't spend your time asking "32bit-only" devs to make 64bit plugins
Judging by the stress/frustration "64bit-only" guys seems to live in, It's quite a concrete benefit

There's only a few 32-bit only plugins in the whole wide world which can't be replaced by something better, and even those are already being ported to 64x.

32x is history.

[Taron]

Lord of the Springs one of the stars of the show, an original PM instrument with steampunky character. Sounds superb. The GUI omits all modern comforts, but I feel part of the obscurity is intentional. In any case there's not that much to do to the sound, I just close it and play. This is the stuff that dev contest is made for, unique, creative plugins that inspire music. I also think imaginary instruments like LOTS are the ideal application of physical modelling, it gives access to instruments that you just can't have in any other way.

MASSIVE:
Thanks, .jon, wow, that was much, much more than I could've hoped for, thank you very much!
I have to tell you, the GUI was really the product of panic, because I ran out of time, but I really wanted to create the procedural engine for it and have those tuning sliders on top of a piano roll (which itself is not as simple as one might think, I really have to add for those, who don't know!).
All the dials and LCD displays are pure panic, but I enjoyed the organic nature of it, even if it's a little too clumsy.
I can't wait to go over it all again and re-design/arrange the GUI properly. I sincerely hope to get more feedback from you then. What you've done right here gives me a big, big boost and completely makes my day!

[JPMack]

Fuzzed crashing Live 9 during scan (Win 7). Pity.

Windows 7 update available now!

[JPMack]

Fuzzed crashing Live 9 during scan (Win 7). Pity.

Same in Reaper-32 (Win7).

Windows 7 update now available!

[SadKo]

Physical Address Extension (PAE) is a processor feature that enables x86 processors to access more than 4 GB of physical memory on capable versions of Windows. Certain 32-bit versions of Windows Server running on x86-based systems can use PAE to access up to 64 GB or 128 GB of physical memory, depending on the physical address size of the processor.

Don't refer to Microsoft Docs where you should refer to Intel or AMD docs.
That's right about physical addresses. But any application that can be executed on OS that supports PAE can use only 4GB of virtual address space. So even if OS supports addressing of exended physical addresses (that can be PSE, also), the application doesn't because of limited up to 32 bits virtual address space. See this document, Table 4-1 for more information:
http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/pjd/cs7600- ... 3a-ch4.pdf

[harryupbabble]

Okay let's say that's true. Still, as long as you can add more than 4 GB memory to your 32-bit OS (sure you may not be able to use apps that needs more than 4 GB for that app to function) you will still be able to multitask using apps that don't require more than 4 GB to function. Ivan said he likes to multitask, and that's how this discussion started, and with a 32-bit Windows OS that can be extended to have, let's say 16 GB of memory, he could do all that multitasking that he mentioned a few pages back in this thread. I don't think any of the apps that he mentioned requires more than 4 GB to function.

Makes me wonder why Microsoft didn't focus more on "Here, this is how you can extend your current OS's memory." and instead just went with "Dump your XP, here's 7, 8 and 10".

Why are people, in a website that is about or indirectly about music-making, pushing for 64-bit plugins when really a typical composer, I presume, don't really use huge sample libraries to make music? Like I mentioned before, most VST plugins don't need 4 GB to function. For example, find me a compressor VST plugin that needs 4 GB to function.

It seems like bloatware is the only justification for 64-bit technology. Do developers really want to make, for example, compressors that uses more than 4 GB? Isn't 64-bit technology similar to constructing 200-lane highways when really, 20-lane highways are adequate for the next 20 years? Some people care about budget?

[musical android]

Lord of the Springs one of the stars of the show, an original PM instrument with steampunky character. Sounds superb. The GUI omits all modern comforts, but I feel part of the obscurity is intentional. In any case there's not that much to do to the sound, I just close it and play. This is the stuff that dev contest is made for, unique, creative plugins that inspire music. I also think imaginary instruments like LOTS are the ideal application of physical modelling, it gives access to instruments that you just can't have in any other way.

MASSIVE:
Thanks, .jon, wow, that was much, much more than I could've hoped for, thank you very much!
I have to tell you, the GUI was really the product of panic, because I ran out of time, but I really wanted to create the procedural engine for it and have those tuning sliders on top of a piano roll (which itself is not as simple as one might think, I really have to add for those, who don't know!).
All the dials and LCD displays are pure panic, but I enjoyed the organic nature of it, even if it's a little too clumsy.
I can't wait to go over it all again and re-design/arrange the GUI properly. I sincerely hope to get more feedback from you then. What you've done right here gives me a big, big boost and completely makes my day!

This makes me so happy!!!
Look what a difference a little bit of love makes!
And it is a very cool instrument.

[Compyfox]

Say people - how many "new tools" found their way into the DC'16, that actually broke the rules?


Let me quote one of the Rules:

Your entry must be an original creation made by you (your team / crew / company / family). Of course you may reuse code / modules / development frameworks, but the actual plug-in / application / sound library should be a new, original creation, not just an obviously cut-down subset of a program you have already written

Uhm... why is this one in the DC'16 then?
https://www.kvraudio.com/product/autoto ... -autotonic


And according to the news blog on the developers page:
https://www.autotonic.net/blogs/news/10 ... tonic-v1-0

Released 2016-07-10 (10th July 2016!) - over 4 years in the making.


The Beat sample set is up for debate (commissioned "sample player", offering "free content", more/other stuff "on their magazine" - one of the most selling music/studio related magazines in Germany), same with the "WavesFactory thing" (initially a Kontakt Sampleset, now a plugin that doesn't use samples - yet the original "freebies" are all gone - hm....).

But this... goes a bit far IMO...


As a famous quote from "The Matrix" goes:
"You must learn that these rules are no different than the rules of a computer system - some of them can be bent, others can be broken".


I guess my votes this year are worth a damn...

[ToneCarver]

It seems like bloatware is the only justification for 64-bit technology. Do developers really want to make, for example, compressors that uses more than 4 GB? Isn't 64-bit technology similar to constructing 200-lane highways when really, 20-lane highways are adequate for the next 20 years? Some people care about budget?

Going 64-bit does not mean one has to use all the available memory. It is more about compatibility than space requirements.

A loose analogy for plugins (any app really) might be to think of them as parts that fit a machine. Imagine that an early version of the machine is built with imperial measurements (inches, feet, yards) so parts for that machine are built to match the imperial dimensions. Imagine now that a later version of the machine is retooled to use metric dimensions (meters, etc) so that all parts for the new machine must be built to match the metric dimensions. One could employ a metric-to-imperial adapter to match the metric parts to the imperial machine, which would be fine for some and too much hassle to be worth it for others. In this (admittedly loose) analogy the machine is the computing platform whose early version is a 32-bit platform and later version is 64-bit, the parts are the software, and the adapter is some software that bridges the difference between the parts built to different dimensions.

[Dominus]

Yeah but maybe a lot of people don't go back that far in time. Maybe they only go back as far as Windows XP and being "still" an owner/user of Windows XP and Windows 7, I have to say... those two operating systems are not that far apart. Plus, I'm familiar with mod trackers. Those run on Windows XP and Windows 7 and probably Windows 10.

So why can't people have the expectation to have 32-bit running for a long long while or at least as long as mod trackers have been running on so many OSes, even to this day? Some technologies don't need updating. Like spoons. I sense there's this urgency to push for the 64-bit and leave 32-bit behind. Why not keep both? Lot's of people want to, I presume?

And by the way, thanks very much Ivan, and all the other developers for making 32-bit versions still available.

I was stuck on Windows 98 for a while waiting for Gigastudio to become compatible with XP. That was a case where a program *would not run* on anything else. (Well, I guess it would run on Windows ME, but that's an argument for a different day.)

Nowadays you can run just about any x86 plugin in an x64 environment, *but* you have had 7 years to make the jump to x64 on the Windows side. Yes, there are still some Synthedit plugins coming out as x86 only. I can only think of one reason for people needing x86 plugins now.

Running an oldish version of Cubase SX.

[harryupbabble]

But how come developers are still creating 32-bit plugins? My guess is that it's because there are still a LOT of people using 32-bit plugins.

I don't have Cubase SX. I have Reaper 0.99 and Podium Free. And there seems to be a lot of "free" DAWs that can run 32-bit plugins still, besides those two that I am using. Also, maybe there are still a lot of people using Cubase SX. Is there a way to really know for sure? Some poll perhaps?

[Taron]

Say people - how many "new tools" found their way into the DC'16, that actually broke the rules?
Let me quote one of the Rules:

Your entry must be an original creation made by you (your team / crew / company / family). Of course you may reuse code / modules / development frameworks, but the actual plug-in / application / sound library should be a new, original creation, not just an obviously cut-down subset of a program you have already written

Uhm... why is this one in the DC'16 then?
https://www.kvraudio.com/product/autoto ... -autotonic

And according to the news blog on the developers page:
https://www.autotonic.net/blogs/news/10 ... tonic-v1-0

Released 2016-07-10 (10th July 2016!) - over 4 years in the making.


The Beat sample set is up for debate (commissioned "sample player", offering "free content", more/other stuff "on their magazine" - one of the most selling music/studio related magazines in Germany), same with the "WavesFactory thing" (initially a Kontakt Sampleset, now a plugin that doesn't use samples - yet the original "freebies" are all gone - hm....).

But this... goes a bit far IMO...


As a famous quote from "The Matrix" goes:
"You must learn that these rules are no different than the rules of a computer system - some of them can be bent, others can be broken".


I guess my votes this year are worth a damn...

Woops, wow, that is indeed a bit...uhm... shady?!
Wasn't that exactly the tool that brought harry about? I must be wrong... that can't be.
Nah it was that random midi thingy... I think. That isn't this, right?!

[Compyfox]

I dunno what has been talked about prior to that - but this is a general chat thread, and this is just annoying me.


The "full version" was released in July. Yes, it's reused assets, yes it's somewhat "a new product". But it is also a run down version of a product that has already been written.

So if we go by the rules...



But you have to make up your own mind. Still, this years Developer Challenge feels more and more like a slap in the face.

[harryupbabble]

Fox, Taron is just angry, I presume, because of that "Lord Of The Matresses" remark I made. What's so bad about that?