SAMPLITUDE RULES (DAW Summing)

[HanafiH]

That's right deario, say it often enough and the dumfuks will believe it.

[hifiboom]

See the pyramids across denial...

you get me spewing....

[HanafiH]

you get me spewing....

Life has its little rewards.

[superddman]

wow, wasn't it better to make some tunes instead of discussing something irrelevant as this?
Sound quality will be the last thing I would worry about when chosing the right host for me. (considering how similar they all sound)

[hifiboom]

you get me spewing....

Life has its little rewards.

I am really happy that I ve never had to see anything like this in real life.

[peejunk]

There's a legendary mastering engineer called John Westman.

It's Vestman. He also hears the jitter from different types of hard disk drives and suggest using an external HDD for audio as it sounds best to him. Chuck Norris and BONES are nothing compared to his super-powers.

He does have a following tho, the kind that makes you reluctant about makeng jokes about him...

[siriusbliss]

Oh, OK, I get it now. Nobody cares that my DAW eats your DAW for lunch. <hehe>

This thread has successfully fell into the abyss of inanity.

Hope you're all happy now.

p.s. or maybe the ones' that don't care, don't create music that NEEDs transparency?
p.p.s. For a while there I was actually LEARNING something.

[daGuru]

wow, wasn't it better to make some tunes instead of discussing something irrelevant as this?
Sound quality will be the last thing I would worry about when chosing the right host for me. (considering how similar they all sound)

Wisdom, at last Ahhhhhhhhhh

[HanafiH]

This thread has successfully fell into the abyss of inanity.

It was never out of the well of inanity.

Firstly I never claimed that any host sounds better because of summing alone. The reason Samp sounds so good is that it comes with an array of Waves-quality phase linear effects in the box as standard. This compares to a certain host whose reverb units are the worst reverbs in public distribution anywhere, including freeware, and whose inbuilt EQs are legendary for their sucksomeness. This is not something subtle, it’s a special case of the bleeding obvious and is partly why Samp is about 50% more expensive than the baseline DAW price. Only try saying that in this thread, and the arsefly brigade start going nyah-nyah stupid summing is summing.

Well if you compare a six year old host, in itself legendary for the cumulative flaws it contained, against a three year old version of another host, which itself had the pants kicked out its summing bus by the Awesome DAWSUM test, you’re going to find a difference. It would be no surprise to me at all that the latest versions of both these applications sum to within a whisker of perfection.

This thread was never about the noble search for a higher proof of audio standards. It’s about a bunch of anal-retentive arsehole bigots who reserve the right to crap on any newbie who doesn’t understand the issue. To then refuse to move the discussion outside of the bounds within which they feel they can win the argument, and then justify it with futile and meaningless audio tests designed to deliver the result they originally wanted.

This is troll city my friend. This is KVR. It’s not about anything meaningful. It’s about protecting small developers’ rights to shit on people. And the really amazing thing is that they will not stop this tosspottery, ever. Even knowing they are being trolled, they will continue sampling white noise, hoo-harring their mutual certainty of being in the right, and shiteing on anybody who dares to say different. This is better than the Mac in the nineties.

[Colonel Flashback]

The .RAR file

HERE 3.9MB

…contains a number of 24bit 48kHZ standard .WAV format files.

There are nine MONO .wav files, named w55.wav, w110.wav and so on. Each file contains 0.25 seconds of silence followed by a TRIANGLE wave at the frequency in Hertz suggested by the file name, which rises from infinity to –0.03dbFS over a period of five seconds. These tones were generated using the Signal Generation utility in Steinberg Wavelab 4.0.

Each file can be loaded into a separate track in a DAW of your choice, under the following conditions, and the following test performed. Do not play all nine triangle wavs at full volume on your system, doing so may overload your monitoring and/or damage your system.

All nine test WAVs should be loaded at origin in a 48kHz 24bit project.

Pan Law MUST be set to 0db.
Pan pots MUST be set to dead center.
All dithering, processing and plugins MUST be removed from the audio chain.
MASTER faders should be set to 0dbFS (normal full on 0db position)
All TRACK faders must be set to –15dBFS.

All sound between origin (0.0 seconds) and origin + 5.250 seconds should be rendered to an interleaved stereo file at 24bits resolution and 48kHz sampling rate.

The .RAR file also contains two outputs from this test. One from Samplitude 7 (stests7), another from Cubase SX1 (stestsx1) (the only two hosts I have). Comparison using Steinberg Wavelab 4.0 indicates the following:

The Samplitude file has a maximum loudness of –2.50dbFS, the SX file -2.51dBFS.

The Samplitude file has a DC Offset averaging –121.235 dbFS

The SX file has a DC Offset averaging –121.754 dbFS

Audio file comparison by Wavelab indicates there are 239,280 points of difference between these two files, and the maximum amplitude of that difference is -70.17dBFS.

welcome to la-la-land...
keep reading your picture books and post pictures from those - it's what you do best

[Kingston]

He does have a following tho, the kind that makes you reluctant about makeng jokes about him...

Ssshhhhhh!!! They might hear us!

[stefancrs]

This thread has successfully fell into the abyss of inanity.

It was never out of the well of inanity.

Firstly I never claimed that any host sounds better because of summing alone. The reason Samp sounds so good is that it comes with an array of Waves-quality phase linear effects in the box as standard. This compares to a certain host whose reverb units are the worst reverbs in public distribution anywhere, including freeware, and whose inbuilt EQs are legendary for their sucksomeness. This is not something subtle, it’s a special case of the bleeding obvious and is partly why Samp is about 50% more expensive than the baseline DAW price. Only try saying that in this thread, and the arsefly brigade start going nyah-nyah stupid summing is summing.

Anyone here seriously trying to say that the _effects_ in an host has something to do with the actual sound quality of said hosts audio engine?

If so, how's the quality of for instance Podium? It has _no_ bundled effects. Does this mean that it sounds better or worse than Cubase? If Samplitude sounds better than Cubase because it has better bundled effects I mean...

Btw, you think we should add for instance a triangle or sine sweep to our "noise wavs", that are unique, as in, they start at different frequencies or something. Or just a note, like in your test. If we'd compare both noise and "normal" signals, would that make our test more reliable?

[stefancrs]

I've made the mixdowns again in Podium using new wave files. The same noise is still in them, but after the noise, a 0.5 second long ugly (aliasing) triangle sweep is inserted. Different sweep on all channels. Frequencies ranging from 1Hz to 22KHz.

If you others (Jens, jupiter8, zeoy and nuisance sonore) still feel up to it, let me know, and I'll mail you the new files. Or anyone else for that matter. But jens has quite a range of hosts atleast

edit: On a second thought, nevermind. There's nothing wrong with the current test really, not unless someone shows there is. Which would be fairly simple. Just find a signal that when mixed in two different hosts will give you different results. Unique white noise doesn't, it'd be very strange if some other signal did.

[zeoy]

I've made the mixdowns again in Podium using new wave files. The same noise is still in them, but after the noise, a 0.5 second long ugly (aliasing) triangle sweep is inserted. Different sweep on all channels. Frequencies ranging from 1Hz to 22KHz.

If you others (Jens, jupiter8, zeoy and nuisance sonore) still feel up to it, let me know, and I'll mail you the new files. Or anyone else for that matter. But jens has quite a range of hosts atleast

Not for me stefan. I know a few things about science and experimental designs (heck, I make my living as a scientist) and I know that there is not a finit number of experiments that could prove a theory. We have enough experiments which support the theory that there is not a DAW sound (taking into account limits of human hearing). Now all it takes to prove that a theory is wrong is just one experiment showing something wich does not agree with what this theory predicts. We 're still expecting this experiment ... (in fact I don't give a shit)
The only indications we have at the moment is that there is possibly something wrong in Samplitude's summing. If that makes Samplitude's sound more pleasant to one's ears that's ok with me

@HanafiH: puting the bundled plugins into the equation is a reasonable explanation for sound differences (who could argue about it?) but that was not the point.

@Stefan again: I am sending you again T 1.6 mixdowns including a few ms of silence at the begining, deactivating the "only render marked region" (wich indeed was producing slightly shorter than 0.5 sec renders) and deactivating also the "add low level noise to avoid denormalization problems" setting (don't know if it matters; probably it does)

[stefancrs]

Ok, fair enough, and, I agree. Will edit the post above.

Edit: forgot. Thanks!