Cytomic 'The Glue' Compressor

[dayjob]

How would people like a move to a "vector" drawn interface instead of 3D rendered skeuomorphic bitmaps for v2? This is an example of what a vector interface would look like, which is from the CF100 SSM2040 resonant filter module I did for VCV Rack:

i've always liked the UI of The Glue and The Drop as well. personally wouldn't change a thing but there's no reason i wont feel the same about a new UI. so.. idk.. kinda "if it ain't broke... " but totally possible that you have a better idea for a new UI.

[Frantz]

While I appreciate all of the effort that goes into this, I would prefer a Cytomic synth over more updates to the existing plugins.

[legendCNCD]

+1 for vector graphics, how do you make a digital, rusty panel with vectors, though?

Quite easily, as ex-graphician-who-made-huge-prints regularly on the job - there is a tool in Illustrator to convert bitmap to vector. The larger the bitmap, the better detailed the conversion. It can take almost all the small details into it from original image, create layers from colour data etc.

https://helpx.adobe.com/illustrator/usi ... trace.html

It can be done. It should not be huge work for GPU's of today to scale it around.

[andy-cytomic]

While I appreciate all of the effort that goes into this, I would prefer a Cytomic synth over more updates to the existing plugins.

Don't worry, I'm already working on a synth behind the scenes, and I've already got some very tasty stuff cooked up for it.

The Glue needs an update to bring it in line with having an HD mode like our other plugins. When I did the original Glue in 2009 where people said "we don't need another SSL bus compressor", which quickly turned into "it's great, make another compressor". The HD version of The Glue v2 will hopefully set the new standard for what is possible with accurate emulation given the increased power of modern cpus.

[Medenka]

people said "we don't need another SSL bus compressor", which quickly turned into "it's great, make another compressor". The HD version of The Glue v2 will hopefully set the new standard for what is possible with accurate emulation given the increased power of modern cpus.

IOW, wasting CPU cycles on marginal improvements, while this has already been done by Slate VMR and very easy on the CPU, by using the other method, not just algos. Same for the vector UI, let's make a hog, simply because your modern CPU can handle it.

Sorry, I don't understand the 'logic' behind such decisions!

And yes, you'd better spend your time working on a synth, instead of imitating rusty rails in vector.

But it's up to you, after all.

[djanthonyw]

So in the new version, saturation is going to be included? Why wasn’t saturation modeled on the current version?

I never understood the point of having a plugin that’s supposed to emulate analog hardware when saturation isn’t included. it’s a huge part of the sound.

[MFXxx]

While I appreciate all of the effort that goes into this, I would prefer a Cytomic synth over more updates to the existing plugins.

Don't worry, I'm already working on a synth behind the scenes, and I've already got some very tasty stuff cooked up for it.

The Glue needs an update to bring it in line with having an HD mode like our other plugins. When I did the original Glue in 2009 where people said "we don't need another SSL bus compressor", which quickly turned into "it's great, make another compressor". The HD version of The Glue v2 will hopefully set the new standard for what is possible with accurate emulation given the increased power of modern cpus.

Synth - cant wait - with filters

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

Right now, Andy's doing a level of circuit solving that very few companies are despite the claims of most companies. Just look at how you can edit schematic values in The Scream and how insanely close it is to a hardware Tube Screamer. Andy didn't hide from a hardware comparison; he made the most exhaustive real-time hardware comparison video I've ever seen.

When The Glue came out 16 years ago, 1) CPU's weren't there yet, and 2) Andy hadn't done the years of R&D on the circuit solver to get to that point with the Scream and 3) the fine tuning to get reasonable CPU results out of it. That hasn't stopped other companies from doing "circuit modeled" SSL Bus Compressor plugins with saturation, but what he's doing now isn't "adding saturation" to The Glue. The way I understand it, he's adding a much higher level of circuit solving, including building circuit models for the specific op-amps, which will have the side effect of introducing saturation into The Glue.

If you use "The Scream" compared to almost all other tube screamer plugins as a reference, I think we're going to end up with the most complete circuit model of an SSL Bus Compressor on the market. If that translates to a marginal improvement over others at more CPU cycles, then that would be a subjective opinion and up to people like us to decide if it's worth it. But I think it's going to be a more objectively accurate emulation.

Seems weird that there's almost some pushback against it. Technology advances, R&D advances, we're closing the gap between plugins and hardware. I love it. I just wish we had 8 Andys that could work on different plugins at the same time.

[andy-cytomic]

So in the new version, saturation is going to be included? Why wasn’t saturation modeled on the current version?

I never understood the point of having a plugin that’s supposed to emulate analog hardware when saturation isn’t included. it’s a huge part of the sound.

Having a clean compressor is still useful. I kept the main signal path clean on The Glue, the only drive comes from the amplitude modulation by the changing gain level. The detailed modelled is all in the diode based envelope follower and ratio shaping etc as this is still really useful, and the cpu usage was already high enough. Remember this was over 16 years ago now, CPUs have improved, and I've gotten a lot better at analog modelling, so it's time to model the main signal path non-linearities, including a detailed Blackmer VCA model, with optional stereo variation of all components. For those that still want clean that will still be available as the MD mode, and the HD mode will be here for those that want to use more cpu and have more detail.

[andy-cytomic]

Right now, Andy's doing a level of circuit solving that very few companies are despite the claims of most companies. Just look at how you can edit schematic values in The Scream and how insanely close it is to a hardware Tube Screamer. Andy didn't hide from a hardware comparison; he made the most exhaustive real-time hardware comparison video I've ever seen.

Thanks!

When The Glue came out 16 years ago, 1) CPU's weren't there yet, and 2) Andy hadn't done the years of R&D on the circuit solver to get to that point with the Scream and 3) the fine tuning to get reasonable CPU results out of it. That hasn't stopped other companies from doing "circuit modeled" SSL Bus Compressor plugins with saturation, but what he's doing now isn't "adding saturation" to The Glue. The way I understand it, he's adding a much higher level of circuit solving, including building circuit models for the specific op-amps, which will have the side effect of introducing saturation into The Glue.

This is an excellent summary and totally spot on, I'm sorry I didn't read this before my previous post and have repeated some of this. I think the most important non-linearity in the main signal chain is the full transistor Blackmer VCA model. With regards the op-amps, I'll have a listen to see how much detail is needed, but I'll probably model the input ones in the most detail as these can be driven the hardest with large input signal levels, so they'll need to be the most detailed. Some of the internal ones should be fine to just do voltage clipping of the outputs.

If you use "The Scream" compared to almost all other tube screamer plugins as a reference, I think we're going to end up with the most complete circuit model of an SSL Bus Compressor on the market. If that translates to a marginal improvement over others at more CPU cycles, then that would be a subjective opinion and up to people like us to decide if it's worth it. But I think it's going to be a more objectively accurate emulation.

Seems weird that there's almost some pushback against it. Technology advances, R&D advances, we're closing the gap between plugins and hardware. I love it. I just wish we had 8 Andys that could work on different plugins at the same time.

Thanks! I'm all for offering my customers with options - you want something efficient then use the MD version without oversampling, you want the extra detail then knock yourself out.

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

I meant to say VCA and wrote opamps! I'd venture to guess the opamps are probably on the cleaner side of things, though likely have some non-linearities when pushed.

[Frantz]

Don't worry, I'm already working on a synth behind the scenes, and I've already got some very tasty stuff cooked up for it.

I'm very excited about this. Thanks!

[Tao Jones]

Just bought the glue and the scream. So awesome to have these! Is it me or is the glue really easy to use? Testing out the drop right now, going to buy it when I can. Really looking forward to the glue v2!!!

[masterhiggins]

While I appreciate all of the effort that goes into this, I would prefer a Cytomic synth over more updates to the existing plugins.

Don't worry, I'm already working on a synth behind the scenes, and I've already got some very tasty stuff cooked up for it.

The Glue needs an update to bring it in line with having an HD mode like our other plugins. When I did the original Glue in 2009 where people said "we don't need another SSL bus compressor", which quickly turned into "it's great, make another compressor". The HD version of The Glue v2 will hopefully set the new standard for what is possible with accurate emulation given the increased power of modern cpus.

What about a replacement for the ChanComp? That simple bias knob really did change its character a lot. I haven't used another 1176-style compressor like that before. I've also never used another delay like Bloom since Fxpansion went tits-up.

[Greenstorm33]

While I appreciate all of the effort that goes into this, I would prefer a Cytomic synth over more updates to the existing plugins.

Don't worry, I'm already working on a synth behind the scenes, and I've already got some very tasty stuff cooked up for it.

Do you have a mailing list? I couldn’t find one on your site, but if you release a synth I’d definitely like to know so I can try it.