Reaper is not an ugly duckling anymore !

[bullshark]

These days though I do pretty much all my drafting inside Microsoft OneNote, the most underrated office program ever. Extremely useful for every part of what I do on the computer, including the entire planning phase of The Audio Garden, and each detail of it, all organized.

Checked out OneNote out after reading this. I ran to the store yesterday to buy it, man is this program ever useful. I have truckloads of papers all over my office that I'm starting to inject into this program, things like bank account, company numbers, web site, GST/TVQ numbers, addresses, employee info etc all into a single encrypted Notebook. No more wasting time trying to find such and such information on such and such piece of paper, everything under my fingertip at all time with a single password to remember. Certainly the right move for the elusive paperless office and an incredible time saver. Thank's for mentioning it.

[Tallisman]

I still prefer to leave the application untouched and locked away in a zip hidden deep in a folder hierarchy on a DVD I don't know the whereabouts of anymore

And obviously your preferred application keeps you amused and busy enough such that you don't need to waste your time in threads about crappy DAWs and their ugly UIs.

[koolkeys]

These days though I do pretty much all my drafting inside Microsoft OneNote, the most underrated office program ever. Extremely useful for every part of what I do on the computer, including the entire planning phase of The Audio Garden, and each detail of it, all organized.

Checked out OneNote out after reading this. I ran to the store yesterday to buy it, man is this program ever useful. I have truckloads of papers all over my office that I'm starting to inject into this program, things like bank account, company numbers, web site, GST/TVQ numbers, addresses, employee info etc all into a single encrypted Notebook. No more wasting time trying to find such and such information on such and such piece of paper, everything under my fingertip at all time with a single password to remember. Certainly the right move for the elusive paperless office and an incredible time saver. Thank's for mentioning it.

No problem! OneNote has CHANGED the way I organize my thoughts. I have notebooks for music, business, personal, etc. Each time my buddy and I discuss business, I use the meetings tab in my business notebook and add a page for that day's notes. I have a lyrics tab in my music notebook with a page for each song. I write a new song title in the top page of a tab, highlight it, then right click and create a new page linked to that title. So I just go down my song title list and click the song I want to work on, and it sends me to that lyric page.

Other cool things I do with it are:

* Use the print to OneNote feature in your print options, and print all email receipts directly to OneNote.
*One hotkey while it's open in the taskbar and you take instant screenshots, saved right into OneNote. Just drag and drop pages between tabs and notebooks to organize.
*Single hotkeys to take an instant new note. I don't even have to save it. Just close it and next time I open OneNote, I can organize it then.

It's immensely useful, and there is SO much more you can do besides what I've said. The reason it's not more well known is that it is marketed to tablet PC users. But it's great for laptops and desktops alike, and both my buddy and I got a copy and it just changed the way we work. Great stuff.


Sorry for the off topic. This program is that good.

Brent

[koolkeys]

I still prefer to leave the application untouched and locked away in a zip hidden deep in a folder hierarchy on a DVD I don't know the whereabouts of anymore

And obviously your preferred application keeps you amused and busy enough such that you don't need to waste your time in threads about crappy DAWs and their ugly UIs.

So why are you wasting time in a thread about a crappy DAW with an ugly UI?

























Ok, I kid, I kid!

[shamann]

I swear some of the folk around here cry every time someone says anything remotely negative about the software they use. FFS, get a backbone and some real concerns.

[Since1980]

AFAIK, REAPER is actually better than that now, down to sub-sample accurate. This is a quote from Justin recently regarding this issue:

In fact, last we tested, it was sub-sample accurate, meaning you could set a loop that was 153715.5 samples long, and it would alternate between looping 153715 and 15716 samples each time through, as to not drift over time.

Justin

billy to be honest I don't know how that would apply to Vsti & Midi timing. I could see the benefit when it comes to audio. But Reaper's audio capabilities are already great, and keeps getting better!!!

if im wrong let me know

[brok landers]

vst, yes, as vsti's are sample accurate, too, midi to hw, correct, there's no benefit ...

[Bevoss]

Now and then I see people request features that make me wonder if they actually NEED it for music production or simply WANT it because it happens to be out there in some other app, and looks like GREAT or FUN to have.

yes, i understand this 100%.
this is actually the reason why it's so hard to develop a good music app.
to spell the necessary from the unnecessary is very hard, i believe, for exact the fact you mention here ...
however, trust me, i need it, i wouldn't ask for it if it wasn't so ...
and, lemme say it like this:
my last wish is to be seen as a pretender, but i'm pretty knowledged about working with sequencers ...
and, despite the fact that there's always a bit of taste involved when it comes to workflow, i must say, that over the time working with sequencers, pretty much a certain workflow established itself, accepted to be good, and this (i made the experience) is mostly more or less the same if only the layout-possibilities are there for the user ...
i was doing studio-support for a lot of studios for quite a while, i was booked for that. they we'r e mostly working with cubase, nuendo or logic, in conjunction with protools hardware ...
they all we're kinda happy with the way they worked with their sequencers, until i showed them (out of their own interrest) how you _can_ work with logic.
from that time on, they never wanted to work any different ...
they mostly took it over within a week or so ...
again, my intension is not to pretend, all i want to show is, that there is a general workflow, that has been prooven to be the best, as it is based on all workflows all others work with their sequencers ... it's just taking a bit from this idea, a bit from that idea, pretty much compiling the _goods_ of certain philosophies into one, easy, yet most flexible workflow with max overview no matter what ...
i can't understand why this isn't done ...

Some features on your list are chinese to me... such as "global track delay for each track in ms/ticks/samples switchable"... I'm too dumb for that

you're not ...
it's easy:
if you do music which really depends on timing, this feature is worth gold.
i'll explain it ...
let's do it the most easy way:
we record a bassdrum with a plugin-sampler on a miditrack, 4 beats, 1 bar.
now, we record sampler-hi hats, 8 beats, 1 bar.
what we have now, is the fact, that hi hat note 1, 3, 5 and 7 are at the exact same position as the bassdrum is. they play together at the same time.
now the important thing:
sometimes you find, that these two signals don't work very well together, while beeing just what you want, when hearing them each isolated (thats why you actually choosed those).
while it could be that they're really not fit together, mostly the _timing_ is the reason.
now, when moving the hihat a tiny bit _before_ the note position of the bassdrum, this can really drastically improove the overall sound of the two sounds, when playing them together. they miracally fit together, just because you slightly moved the _whole track_ of the hihat just a tiny bit ...
i can't tell you the exact ammount of the "move", as it differs depending on the signal, but it's mostly just a tiny bit, ranging from around (guessed) 100 samples to , say, max 4 msec's (that's why i said "switchable", so you can use msecs, ticks or samples) ...
the most important thing is, that this audio-principle actually applies to _all_ signals in a mix!
i.e. the same works with bassdrum and snare ... the snare doesn't fit when played together with the bassdrum, just move it a bit, try around, while listen to the looped bar ... you'll mostly find a position, where it fits perfectly with the bassdrum, without the need to correct with any eq's, etc ... not that mixing is not necessary, it still is, but the basic sound is already what you expected ...
while one could do this with a plugin (there are several sample delays out there), i find it easier to be able to do that somewhere directly in the trackview ... it's an essential for me ...


the problem is:
mostly everything is there!
it's just the way it is accessable drives me nuts ...
some features are 10 mouseclicks away, while they could've been implemented so that there's just one mouseclick ...
i'll give you another example:
logic has screensets, which you can recall with just a stroke on one key on your computerkeyboard.
while reaper has that too, in logic it makes the feature actually really usable near to perfecness because of one reason:
all the editors (in fact, all windows) are content linkable.
this means, you actually can leave the editors all open, building a screenset for a given task, i.e. midi editing.
i have two monitors. it's a breeze to lay out the workflow taskbased, i have the arrangement window to the left monitor, the pianoroll editor to the right monitor, but lefthanded on the right monitor, the event list to the right monitor, right handed, next to the pianoroll, but not full vertical space ...
right under the event list editor i have some transform windows, which perform
stuff i need mostly on a lot of events, such as full velo on all notes, creshendo or decreshendo on selected events (selected in the pianoroll editor), quantize lenght of all/selected events, etc, etc ...
the cool thing is, that these editors, as they are contentlinked, show the ingrediances of whatever you select in the arrange window!
there's no need to poen and close any editor ever again!
you can't be faster.
it's just one keystroke and you're ready to edit, seeing _everything_ you ever might need, no need to doubleclick and close all various editors again and again ...
you could also do this type of working with _all_other tasks, such as mixing, audio editing ... etc, etc ...
whenever, wherever, it's just _one_ keystroke and you're ready to edit whatever you want in the fastest possible manner, while providing maximum overview of all you do ...
i simply cannot understand why this is not implemented into _every_ f**** sequencer ...
nobody's forced to work a certain way then anymore, as everybody has the possibility to create his own, personal workspace to the deepest state ...
that's what i call freedom ...
if you don't understand what i mean (my english), i could post some screenshots for examination and reverse engineering ...

>snip< A feature you miss: "there's no dragable editability of the event list editor". Is that what you'd call a basic MIDI function?

oh hell, yes!
look, some stuff is easier edited in the piano roll, some stuff is easier edited in the event list, i.e. controller remapping ... you just select in logic a controller event you'd like to remap to another controller, doubleclick it with "alt" pressed, and it selects all the events of the same type, say, controller1 ... then all you have to do is move the mouse to the controllernumber (which is shown in the eventlist of course) and drag it up or down to your desired controllernumber and: voila, you just rmapped the controller with 2 (!?) mouseclicks ...
that's just one of many reasons i really love the eventlist editor ...
others are, that the eventlist editor in logic isn't only for midi, but for _all_ events in the arrange (even automation), so if you click on an audio part, it shows you the exact position in numbers, which makes it possible to freely fine-adjust the position, the lenght and various other properties of that audiopart by simply draging the mouse up or down, which is often easier than fiddeling around graphically (which you of course can do too, if you prefer) ...
sometimes numbers give you a more safe indication than graphics ...
already automated a cutoff on the track, but you need higher values, while keeping the exaxt same curve?
select the automation part, select all (ctrl > a) in the eventlist editor, drag to the value you need. done ... 2 clicks, one drag, that's it ...
this again applies to all events, you could also do that with velocity, or any other controller ... pure freedom with minimum required steps ...

But apart from that question, what interests me: what does that feature allow to you do that REAPER currently doesn't? Or is it mostly about the workflow you're used to in another app?

well, both .. i'm used to it, but there is, like i said, no easier/safer way too ... you have all necessary overview and editing possibilities with just one keystroke ...
when you need numbers for detailled editing, they're there, when you need pianostyle editing it's there, too ... in logic this philosophy applies, like i said, fo _all_ events, so you can choose and layout the workflow most possible perfect, recallable, again, with just one keystroke ...

That's a great post! I really think you should start a post over at Cockos about this, it seems you have a real grasp on fast workflow in Logic. Linked windows would help a lot actually...and draggable/scrollable data is a must for speed, even just for the tempo! Obviously Justin hasn't finished with the midi, so the time is probably ripe now to discuss it.

You'll get a lot of support I'm sure.

[shogger]

- lotsa good thoughts -

That's a great post! I really think you should start a post over at Cockos about this, it seems you have a real grasp on fast workflow in Logic. Linked windows would help a lot actually...and draggable/scrollable data is a must for speed, even just for the tempo! Obviously Justin hasn't finished with the midi, so the time is probably ripe now to discuss it.

You'll get a lot of support I'm sure.

+1

Shogger

[xander]

I'm starting to REALLY get into Reaper -- the potential is enormous and I'd like to give it's development lots of encouragement.

For the newest of host programs, it sure has a lot to offer. I truly hope to see it continue to evolve

Cheers,
Alex

[alex zonder]

yea brok, thanks for elaborating even further - and see what you get: a great post

Now I see and understand what improvements you'd like to see, and above all for what reasons/purposes. Now I can fully agree that "dragable editability of the event list editor" would be a great feature to add; let's hope Justin will read your post and agree.

BTW when I mentioned 'a language problem' I was not focusing on your use of English of course but on my limitations in understanding some its more technical terms

And thanks for explaining 'global track delay'. Sure I know the problem. It exists for MIDI as for audio. I solve it in a simple but so far effective manner, after I got all parts (of a drum sequence for instance) on the tracks. I radically zoom in on the tracks and simply use the possibility to minimally relocate the MIDI or audio items... at a minimal distance... be it ahead or after the part I choose to lock where it is, the bass drum for example. For 'humanizing' the drums I might change between ahead or after for the snare for example. But I do all that by manually moving the parts, listening, and making choices. It takes some extra time maybe, but I see no problem in that since it's exactly the 'work on details' that I happen to like.

I agree with what Klemperer suggested. I'll turn that into a somewhat more general obversation, not directed against anything you wrote btw. What I see around me is that the wish and/or need to do everything as fast and simple as possible has a devastating effect on music, the arts, culture in general. I know of course that record producers (or sound engineers) and musicians are very different categories as DAW users. Both however IMO should never accept the monstrous idea that time is money. It simply isn't. In audio recording and everything connected to it we might need an equivalent of the 'slow food' idea where time is an opportunity for quality. BTW as pipelineaudio often rightly stated, the faster today's DAWs are, the less money he'll get for the work done in them

A popular phrase in these forums when people suggest workarounds: work + around = more work. So what's wrong with that? If that work isn't your passion, stop doing it alltogether! Think of all the hours and labour that went into say the Beatles' white album or the Beach Boys' Pet Sounds... These are not particularly the results of 'great workflow!' or 'fast and easy!':)

Sorry for getting off topic. But in my view an artist is someone who's trying to overcome great obstacles, sometimes created by him(or her)self. If people who create things don't try to do something that seems to be impossible, they better don't do it all and choose a regular job. In that respect 'workflow' might be a highly anti-creative phenomenon.

But: a great post, Brok. No doubt Justin will read it and keep it in mind.

[Mutant]

Wow !
Such an interesting, constructive and civilized discussion !
I'm kinda proud my thread has matured so much in only 25 pages

[mensturbation]

well, it doesnt suffer from constant

"reaper looks like puke"

"reaper is legalized piracy"

"reaper is amazing, everything else sucks"

"cubase n"

etc...

[Mutant]

Ding ding dong !
We have a winner !



http://www.cockos.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11359

I'm seriously considering changing from Acoustic Induction to a slightly modified Axiom
(I don't like interlaced meters.)

[alex zonder]

Ding ding dong !
We have a winner !



http://www.cockos.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11359

I'm seriously considering changing from Acoustic Induction to a slightly modified Axiom
(I don't like interlaced meters.)

No... Younsoft is the winner! Most tactile DAW Gui I've ever seen... a sheer joy to work in for hours... and what's so good about it: it has a style and approach of its own and therefore suits REAPER more than fine... In another color setting:



Same view (not playing) in the Axiom theme: